Best Director

[criddic3]

No on Bay and Smith, but Altman made some of the most unwatchable movies ever made (Have you actually ever tried sitting through Quintet or Health?) and the only great film Kubrick ever made was Eyes Wide Shut.

Eyes Wide Shut? An interesting failure, sure, but a great film?

Wrong!

Eyes Wide Shut is NOT interesting!

Okay, perhaps "amusing" is a better word, but I think the acting was "interesting." Nicole Kidman had a couple of scenes, as did Tom Cruise, that sort of worked within the context of the film. I've never been able to get into most of Kubrick's films, as technically brilliant as they undeniably were. The reason I liked "A.I." so much was that it showcased the darkness of Kubrick through the more sentimental lense of Spielberg's vision. He needed a more human touch at times.

[Sonic Youth]

next you are going to tell me that michael bay and kevin smith are unappreciated geniuses and robert altman and stanley kubrick are overrated hacks.

No on Bay and Smith, but Altman made some of the most unwatchable movies ever made (Have you actually ever tried sitting through Quintet or Health?) and the only great film Kubrick ever made was Eyes Wide Shut.

Eyes Wide Shut? An interesting failure, sure, but a great film?

Wrong!

Eyes Wide Shut is NOT interesting!

[Sonic Youth]

Oy, where to begin? I love Goodfellas, I love Mean Streets, I love Taxi Driver, I love many other Scorsese films. But if I never see Raging Bull again, it would be too soon. As a piece of filmmaking, it is exceptional, astonishing. As drama, it is utterly lacking in any involvement or interest whatsover. As an experience, it's the equivalent of Robert De Niro smacking himself against the cell wall for the complete running time. I also prefer Ordinary People. I've never been upper-class, but I've had several upper-class friends growing up and I recognized a lot of the characters and familial dynamics within the film. And forget this "Marty wuz robbed!" mentality. If anyone was robbed in 1980, it was Donald Sutherland. Until a few days ago, the Academy never gave Marty an Oscar. But at least he's had his chances, something you can never say for Sutherland.

I like Coal Miner's Daughter very much until Levon Helm disappears from the picture, from which the movie never recovers.

Brian De Palma?... Best I don't touch that one, and I even like many of his films, but lord I hated The Black Dahlia.

[rolotomasi99]

I was not taking rolo to task for daring to disagree with me that De Palma is an interesting/fascinating/great/worthy/whatever director.

I took him to task for disagreeing with what was a factual observation. Four directors were on that stage. One was missing. Simple as that.

that is what i think you should apologize for because i never said he was not part of that gang of young directors. de palma was one of the first people lucas showed STAR WARS to because he respected de palma's opinion so much. the whole group was thick as thieves.
i only questioned your assertion that he was the most talented of the bunch, and that is a subjective issue not factual. i do not feel i deserve to be called an idiot for disagreeing, especially since i never resorted to calling you one.

[Eric]

that is what i love about this board too. i just could do without the name calling and dishonest accusations...eric.

If you think I'm going to apologize to you for being a De Palma skeptic, forget it.

[rolotomasi99]

it is not a matter of thinking you folks are wrong, it is just me being confused by how people judge movies.

But see, Rolo, that's one of the great things about this board, which rain Bard indicated in his eloquent post. The enthusiasm of people for filmakers you may have dismissed might make you take a second look at them.

that is what i love about this board too. i just could do without the name calling and dishonest accusations...eric.

i thought i made it pretty clear that i see de palma as a director on the verge of greatness, however the de palma enthusiasts seem to see that as the same as bashing him. believe me, i understand. i feel the same way about scorsese. i think it is fine to dislike scorsese movies (they are often very violent and profane), but to think they are poorly written, directed, acted, shot, edited, etc. seems wrong to me. however, everyone is entitled to their opinion.
i just admire people who can separate their feelings about a film from their opinion of its merit. i am no fan of films like GONE WITH THE WIND, CASABLANCA, and IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE, but i recognize their high cinematic quality.
i love scorsese because i think his ability to truly use all of the elements of film as a visual medium is second only to director's from the silent era. he makes you aware of the cinematography and editing in a way that pulls you into the movie, rather than out (though i know some disagree).
*note to all young directors, shaky camera work is neither original nor brilliant. cassavetes was able to make it work, but none of you can so just stop.

as for de palma's films, i see great mastery of the tools of the film medium but no artistry. MISSION TO MARS was so meticulously and beautifully shot, but it feels like de palma was just doing a good job because he was hired to direct the film, not because he loved the material. i have no proof of this, i am only speaking to the feeling i got after watching it. the same for THE UNTOUCHABLES, a film i have watched repeatedly and enjoyed but never got swept up in the movie the way you do when a director feels passionately about the film. i am not speaking to the reality of what de palma actually feels about his films, just the perception of the person watching the film. i am sure he would say he loves all his films. it is just the same thing that makes me feel bland towards THE AVIATOR. scorsese crafted it to perfection, but i did not feel that he loved it the way he did THE DEPARTED. the same goes for kubrick's work on SPARTACUS. the film is perfectly shot, but the movie is the only one kubrick was hired to direct rather than him picking the project himself...and you can feel that when you watch it...or at least i think so.

[Precious Doll]

Well I'm a De Palma devotee. De Palma's Carrie was one of the films that got me interested in cinema and the importance of the director. I think his earlier films (Carrie, Obsession, Blow Out, Dressed to Kill, Phantom of the Paradise, Body Double) have been his best. His work from the mid 80's tended toward the more conventional and less personal but never the less expertly directered. Mission Impossible and Mission to Mars being the only serious misfires. Femme Fatale and The Black Dahlia were a return to form.

Scorsese was more interesting in the early days but the last 15 years (Kundun being the main exception) have been a dead loss. Hopefully now that he has his much sought after Oscar hopefully he will go make to more personal filmmaking.

I would have voted for Raging Bull in 1980 at the time, but now I would vote for Coalminer's Daughter. It just keeps getting better and better with each viewing.

[anonymous1980]

I remember early on here, I had hated The Thin Red Line, which I thought was an incoherent mess. But so many people adored it -- including, as memory serves, DWS, Italiano and Johnny Guitar, that I watched it again, and was blown away, amazed that I hadn't appreciated it the first go-around. And now I think it's one of the top 5 films of the 90s.

Same here, Damien.

I, too, enjoy the boards and I respect everyone's opinion (even criddic's!, believe it or not). I even find your hatred of "goddamn cartoons" oddly endearing even though I disagree with it.

[Damien]

suddenly MISSION TO MARS, SNAKE EYES, and DRESSED TO KILL were being called genius, and RAGING BULL, GOODFELLAS, and TAXI DRIVER were crap.

Goodfellas is not crap.

it is not a matter of thinking you folks are wrong, it is just me being confused by how people judge movies.

But see, Rolo, that's one of the great things about this board, which rain Bard indicated in his eloquent post. The enthusiasm of people for filmakers you may have dismissed might make you take a second look at them. I remember early on here, I had hated The Thin Red Line, which I thought was an incoherent mess. But so many people adored it -- including, as memory serves, DWS, Italiano and Johnny Guitar, that I watched it again, and was blown away, amazed that I hadn't appreciated it the first go-around. And now I think it's one of the top 5 films of the 90s.

So if a number of folks here are so De Palma, take it as an indication that maybe it would be rewarding for you to look into him as a filmmaker. I think you will be amply rewarded. Check out, as a starter, the books Brian De Palma: Interviews (Conversations With Filmmakers Series) by Brian De Palma and Laurence F. Knapp and/or Brian de Palma by John M. Ashbrook.

[Johnny Guitar]

Well. I just got off the phone with God, Who told me that De Palma is definitely His favorite of the Movie Brats, which should settle the matter. For the record, I agree with God. On this one.

I'm not even really a Scorsese fan but I was psyched to see him win. (In fact after I got home I watched the last 1.5 hours of the Oscars solely to see that.) Too bad he couldn't have spoken longer ... if there's anyone I'd like to see have a long time at the podium, it's him, justbecausehe'ssoinfusedwithenthusiasmforcinema.

[rolotomasi99]

So if you don't agree with someone else's taste in directors, you're an idiot now? I mean, if that's not the epitome of an on-line sandbox, I don't really know what is.

I'm going to write this one more time and then I'm done with it. I was not taking rolo to task for daring to disagree with me that De Palma is an interesting/fascinating/great/worthy/whatever director. That was not the point I was trying to make.

I took him to task for disagreeing with what was a factual observation. Four directors were on that stage. One was missing. Simple as that.

As for using the tag "idiot," sure, not the most tactful way of making a point. But I think everyone should be allowed at least one director/film/whatever they are allowed to defend with fists flailing.

eric, i think you have me confused with someone else. i never said de palma was not part of the peter biskand 70's pantheon. i only commented on you saying de palma was the best of the group. i am not trying to bring up that debate again, i just wanted to defend myself from either the mistake or lie you made by saying i claimed de palma was not part of wunderkid group of the 70's.

*eric said: "The fifth member of the Peter Biskand '70s pantheon -- Brian De Palma -- conspicuously absent from this moment. Oh well, he always was the classiest member of this quintet, and the best director."
*to which dylanfan23 commented: "depalma? are you kidding me"
*and you came back wtih: "Don't scoff at me. Read the book."

it was after that exchange that i commented that i did not think de palma was the most talented of the group, though certainly not the least talented. then all hell broke loose. suddenly MISSION TO MARS, SNAKE EYES, and DRESSED TO KILL were being called genius, and RAGING BULL, GOODFELLAS, and TAXI DRIVER were crap. i just never knew that many people felt that way. unlike some people, i would never call you guys idiots, i was just surprised. just like when criterion released ARMAGEDDON and THE ROCK on dvd. i had to deal with the idea that a group whose opinion i respected thought these two films were great art when i had previously just thought of them as mindless entertainment.
it is not a matter of thinking you folks are wrong, it is just me being confused by how people judge movies.

i do not understand why we people keep resorting to name calling on this board.

well, i just wanted to point out to everyone else that i never stated eric was wrong about de palma being a part of that group. i think eric just claimed i said that because flip525 called him on his behavior.

[flipp525]

I am not that new. As Oscar Guy knows I am an old member of the forum who was forced to reregister under a different nickname due to severe technical problems.

Oh. Who were you before, just out of curiosity?

[taki15]

taki15, it looks like you're relatively new to this board so, as one of the decade-plus veterans here, let me impart something to you: Damien is definitely one of the best film resources around here and is hardly known for putting out dissenting opinions just for the sake of being difficult of self-congratulatory. He's written books including "Inside Oscar", an excellent resource for Academy Awards trivia as well as a comprehensive look at the nominees/winners year-by-year. I'm not his publicist or anything but I felt the need to jump in and defend against an unwarranted attack.

Flipp, I am not that new. As Oscar Guy knows I am an old member of the forum who was forced to reregister under a different nickname due to severe technical problems. So I know perfectly well who Damien is. As I mentioned I respect very much his opinions.

What bothered me was his position that whoever admires Scorsese and Kubrick is somehow incapable of independent thought and is just carried away by what some film critics and historians say, like sheep.

[rain Bard]

So for all the people who buy into the Peter Biskind view, I'm thrilled that this site has some idiosyncratic souls (Eric, DWS, rain Bard come immediately to mind) who know better.

Well, Damien, I definitely have to credit this board and its members (and former members) like you, Big Magilla, Precious Doll, Johnny Guitar, Hedgy, The Apostle, etc. (I'm sure I'm leaving out many other major influences) for pushing my taste down the path toward idiosyncracy. When I first found this place more than eight years ago I was movie soundtrack nerd with a very checkered viewing history, and I had a tendency to be embarrassed about most any opinions I had that went against general consensus (of the imdb sort). A combination of realizing from you all there were huge untapped worlds of film (foreign films that hadn't won Academy Awards, and Hollywood classics beyond the obvious Hitchcocks, Disneys, and Singin' in the Rains) that could be far more rewarding than rewatching Blade Runner for the umpteenth time, and realizing from all your strongly-held, idiosyncratic opinions that conventional film wisdom can and should be butted against, permanantly changed my filmwatching perspective. The process also helped me feel all the more confident about my unpopular opinions I'd previously felt somewhat sheepish about.

[Eric]

So if you don't agree with someone else's taste in directors, you're an idiot now? I mean, if that's not the epitome of an on-line sandbox, I don't really know what is.

I'm going to write this one more time and then I'm done with it. I was not taking rolo to task for daring to disagree with me that De Palma is an interesting/fascinating/great/worthy/whatever director. That was not the point I was trying to make.

I took him to task for disagreeing with what was a factual observation. Four directors were on that stage. One was missing. Simple as that.

As for using the tag "idiot," sure, not the most tactful way of making a point. But I think everyone should be allowed at least one director/film/whatever they are allowed to defend with fists flailing.