The Official Review Thread of 2007

[Heksagon]

You're partly right, Johnny, as Apatow is a rather limited screenwriter, and the script is, um, unbalanced. But I still like the way he doesn't over-emphasize how different, well, let's say, how different backgrounds Rogen and Heigl have. It may be unintentional, though.

[Penelope]

I agree with 99% of everything you say, Johnny, save for this:

yet it's Heigl who seems to be all alone and tethered and nothing in the film indicates that this is weird, or that any characters see anything weird about it.

There are people in the world who are loners, and it's not weird or a bad thing: we just prefer to be by ourselves. Obviously, the movie never makes much of this, but then that's par for the course.

[Mister Tee]

Word-perfect, Johnny.

[Johnny Guitar]

So, I'm working on my Knocked Up review and I keep thinking: When are we going to get a movie about a not-so-pretty woman getting together with a handsome fellow? or better yet, an unattractive older woman who is seduced by a younger, goodlooking man. How often are we going to be forced to watch attractive women falling for ugly or ugly old men?

Let's not forget Ettore Scola's Passione d'amore. Though it wasn't going for the same sort of market as Knocked Up admittedly--and therein lies the crucial point. It's about marketing and demographics.

I don't think there's anything special about the film's treatment of characters from different "leagues" (IMO it'd be more interesting if more teen/"tweenty" films these days acknowledged class--which a lot of the '80s Hollywood teen films did). What's weird is that Heigl isn't given any life outside of her family and Rogen's circle. Heigl, a blonde "looker," an up-and-coming professional, seems to have no one in her life--not even a douchebag fiance (isn't that supposed to be par for the course?) or a chatty best friend (well, I guess that'd have to be her shrew sister ... who deep down respects Authority from men who "got a pair"). Rogen's the one living in an insular world, and yet it's Heigl who seems to be all alone and tethered and nothing in the film indicates that this is weird, or that any characters see anything weird about it.

(Yes, there is the ONE SCENE where Heigl runs into some ... what, friends? Acquaintances? Who? All we see is that they're quietly bitchy women who don't even know what's been happening in Heigl's life.)

The Judd Apatow Dreamworld: Dudes. Bros. Hangin' out. Playin' games. Tellin' each other they're gay. But not really bein' all homophobic 'bout it. Eventually one of them meets a chick. Who's awesome, attractive, financially stable. Takes her to a nice upscale chain restaurant. Shit happens cuz chicks are more mature. But they need to chill out. Eventually the awesome, financially stable chick chills out. The dude lets his bros know that there's more to life than DVDs and weed. The dude knows this is a really croosh moment in his life. (He knows like Tom Cruise knows, bro.) Luckily things work out so that he can practically snap his fingers to live the middle-class normal existence he grew up with, rather than the arrested adolescence he was living in. But he keeps his dude friends. The chick, having chilled out, returns to him. Dude. The end.

[Heksagon]

In my opinion, one of the best things in Knocked Up is the fact the film mostly keeps it implied that Rogen and Heigl are at "different leagues". The scene where they meet some of Heigl's old friend at a shopping mall works very well precisely because so much is implied.

On the other hand, I've never liked Dogfight - exactly because Taylor's appearance is so strongly emphasized, the film feels superficial and blunt (there may be a better word in English for this).

[Mister Tee]

Well, that's how much impression that part of the plot made on me, that I didn't even remember the line. Still, I don't think it compares to the judgment made against Taylor based on her film's title alone. Also, Dogfight's plot required Taylor to be obviously more intelligent/cooler than other women in the story, to offset her physical "lacks". Whereas Rogen has merely to quit smoking pot all day and get a steady job -- what used to be a minimal requirement for a romantic prospect -- to win Heigl over.

I've always thought the ultimate comment on Hollywood's standards for female beauty was Beatty's Heaven Can Wait -- the movie where (pardon the expression) the booby prize is Dyan Cannon.

[Penelope]

And there's the morning-after scene where Seth says to Katherine, "You're prettier than I am."

[Sonic Youth]

So, I'm working on my Knocked Up review and I keep thinking: When are we going to get a movie about a not-so-pretty woman getting together with a handsome fellow?

Dogfight (1991).

Of course, in that movie, the whole point is that Lili Taylor is so plug-ugly, but our protagonist shows maturity when he learns to appreciate her inner beauty. Whereas the looks of Seth Rogen (or numerous other no-great-shakes male leads) is never referenced in their films).

"You're prettier than I am."

And it's very much understood by all in "Knocked Up" that Rogen is out of Heigl's league, lookswise and in many other respects. I mean, that's part of the basis of the movie.

As for unattractive woman/attractive man: "My Big Fat Greek Wedding." And THAT'S one that skirts the issue.

[flipp525]

So, I'm working on my Knocked Up review and I keep thinking: When are we going to get a movie about a not-so-pretty woman getting together with a handsome fellow?

Dogfight (1991).

Of course, in that movie, the whole point is that Lili Taylor is so plug-ugly, but our protagonist shows maturity when he learns to appreciate her inner beauty. Whereas the looks of Seth Rogen (or numerous other no-great-shakes male leads) is never referenced in their films).

True, Tee. And what a lovely movie with daring performances by Lili Taylor and River Phoenix. It's breif, but in Knocked Up, though, there is a scene where Leslie Mann's character mentions to Hiegl that Seth Rogan's character (obviously I don't remember any of their characters' names) looks 33 when he is, in fact, 23, and that he probably has bad genes. It's about as close as we get to anyone declaring the incongruity of the pair.

[Mister Tee]

So, I'm working on my Knocked Up review and I keep thinking: When are we going to get a movie about a not-so-pretty woman getting together with a handsome fellow?

Dogfight (1991).

Of course, in that movie, the whole point is that Lili Taylor is so plug-ugly, but our protagonist shows maturity when he learns to appreciate her inner beauty. Whereas the looks of Seth Rogen (or numerous other no-great-shakes male leads) is never referenced in their films).

[OscarGuy]

Kathy Bates or Gloria Stuart as romantic leads.

As you admit, Flipp, those aren't precisely right, but those few films compared to the hundreds that do it the opposite.


And it was Knocked Up that made me remember it, but a number of other 2007 films had the same conceit...even As Good As It Gets...Nicholson's fugly but he gets the girl? I've seen plenty of not unattractive men who have fat or ugly shrews of spouses/girlfriends. Where is the sense in showing that? But, I guess the Best Actor/Best Actress dichotemy is the perfect example of the agism/sexism rampant in Hollywood.

[Zahveed]

So, I'm working on my Knocked Up review and I keep thinking: When are we going to get a movie about a not-so-pretty woman getting together with a handsome fellow? or better yet, an unattractive older woman who is seduced by a younger, goodlooking man. How often are we going to be forced to watch attractive women falling for ugly or ugly old men?

That small comment kind of inspired me to write to start writing a script along those lines. It won't even be a cougar either, just a homely middle-aged woman.

[flipp525]

So, I'm working on my Knocked Up review and I keep thinking: When are we going to get a movie about a not-so-pretty woman getting together with a handsome fellow?

Dogfight (1991).

or better yet, an unattractive older woman who is seduced by a younger, goodlooking man.

The Roman Spring of Mrs. Stone (1961) (2003 - TV), although Vivien Leigh and Helen Mirren can hardly be called unattactive.



Edited By flipp525 on 1201192936

[OscarGuy]

So, I'm working on my Knocked Up review and I keep thinking: When are we going to get a movie about a not-so-pretty woman getting together with a handsome fellow? or better yet, an unattractive older woman who is seduced by a younger, goodlooking man. How often are we going to be forced to watch attractive women falling for ugly or ugly old men?

[Sonic Youth]

It's no great loss that "The Orphanage" won't be nominated for Best Foreign Language film. It reminds me of my experience with "The Host" - engaging while it's going on, but doesn't stand up to scrutiny. It begins very promisingly, with a wonderfully chilling sequence as a child is enticed into a seaside cave, and another at a party with children sinisterly running around the house in costume masks. And director Bayona has real empathy for his characters, much like M. Night Shyamalan (which this film could have passed for had it been in English.) But Bayona doesn't know how to truly get under the skin; the longer the mystery unfolds, the more conventional the whole thing ultimately feels. And it doesn't help that the "scares" are typical horror-film "startles" - the hackneyed BANGS and SLAMS and whatnot. Because of del Toro's involvement, this is being compared to "Pan's Labyrinth". Due to its setting, "The Devil's Backbone" might be a more apt comparison, but it doesn't matter. "The Orphanage" isn't half the equal of either film.



Edited By Sonic Youth on 1200975323