Post-Globe Predictions

[Big Magilla]

I guess I missed the point. I stupidly assumed that a supposedly sophisticated middle-aged internationally reknown film critic would be familiar with such well known source material and not coming to it for the first time. Even his co-host for the week, the much younger actress Aishi Tyler had to roll her eyes at his inane comments. Even if he wasn't familiar with the music, he knewthe film was adapted from a well-known Broadway musical - that's "Broadway", not "Detroit". If Broadway music isn't your cup of tea, fine, but don't condemn something for being what it is instead of what you'd prefer it to be. You might as well condemn a cat for not being a dog.

[Sonic Youth]

That's absurd. Phantom failed because it was overblown, Rent because it was ugly to look at and The producers because its visual jokes fell flat, not becasue they utilized the same music as was in the original show.

Rents' ugliness and The Producers' visual jokes are symptoms of the real problem. They failed because the filmmakers were too reverent to the stage productions, and thought the source material would translate well if they just let them speak for themselves. It looks like Nicholas Hytner has made the same mistake with The History Boys.

I can't imagine a production of Phantom of the Opera being more overblown than it already is.

I'm not suggesting a new score or Motown standards at all, although a few more new songs might have been a good idea. But in a Broadway show, it's a given that you're playing to the rafters. If the movie is meant evoke a particular time and place, 70s era Broadway stylings is going to sound anachronistic. And if the material isn't good enough, then the style isn't going to appeal to any modern musical newcomers. Meaning (ye gods), Roeper may have a point.

[Anon]

Before I get sucked into this argument, I will reserve judgment until next week when I plan to see Dreamgirls the movie.

I, personally, am expecting camp -- even if no one else is -- and expect to see strengths in performance (more than the music), costume, and cinematography.

I will agree with Big Magilla in saying that the triumph really will be tested in how well the musical works cinematically rather than on stage. Phantom of the Opera, while "overblown," never left the stage. Contrast this to the expansive rendering of The Sound of Music (talk about cinematic expansion!) or West Side Story.

I hope to see more of the same in Dreamgirls.

In a reversal, I can't wait to see Moulin Rouge staged for Broadway! Are these plans in the works?

[Damien]

The orchestrations in the movie are less "Broadway" and more 60s than those for the show, but you still wouldn't mistake the songs for original Motown records -- although "Love You I Do" is a really nice 60s soul pastiche, and there's a brief moment of a Jackson 5 type group that sounds like the real thing. In the early part of the film, Eddie Murphy's character performs in a style that is more Atlantic and Stax than Motown, but towards the end when he sings "Patience" he's channelling Marvin Gaye.

[Big Magilla]

That's absurd. Phantom failed because it was overblown, Rent because it was ugly to look at and The producers because its visual jokes fell flat, not becasue they utilized the same music as was in the original show. West Side Story, The Sound of Music, Oliver!, Cabaret and Chicago all succeeded utilizing their orignal scores but presenting them in cinematic rather than stagebound settings.

Sure they could have taken the original story of Dreamgirls and replaced it with a completely new score or old Motown standards but it would have been something different than a musical version of the show it was sold as, something like those old Mickey and Judy musicals which retained original show titles and then dropped most, if not all the songs.

The Dreamgirls score is neither pure Broadway nor pure Motown but a hybrid of the two that really doesn't please anybody. I don't know anyone who loves this score the way they do the scores of say, Finian's Rainbow and Kiss Me, Kate. That said, the cast does put the songs across with more verve than the original players.

[Sonic Youth]

Roeper didn't like Dreamgirls because the music was "too Broadway". He wanted more rhtyhm and blues. Maybe he should have stayed home and played his old 'Retha records instead going to a screening of a film based on a Broadway musical.

I'm not going to touch the other arguments on this thread. Instead, I'll start a new one.

Magilla, that's the sort of mindset that's going to kill the spate of Broadway musical-to-screen adaptations. If Broadway adaptations are just going to be relics of the show, then we're going to get nothing but Rent and The Producers and Phantom of the Opera.

[OscarGuy]

I've never seen the musical. I have listened to the original cast recording and, from the sounds of the cast recording, it's very much about Motown. The songs are all stylistically of the era from which they were "written". Listening to it is one thing, watching, I'm sure, is another.

[jack]

A little off topic, and a post better placed on the Dreamgirls blog, but can someone tell me if the stage musical, and thus the film, if you've seen it (Damien better to answer that one) is more 'broadway' in style of its music and songs, or is more in keeping with the Motown the it depicts?



Back on topic, if Dreamgirls turns out to be as good as it already seems then all the power to it. Personaly I'm more of a Departed supporter (for the time being, at least). Though I do think it's a little premiture to be prediting Bill Condon winning Best Director. If Dreamgirls is the frontrunner for Best Picture, Marty will still win Director. It does seem like this is his year. Finally.

[criddic3]

Italiano:

Tell them over and over that Iraq is responsible for September 11 and they will believe so.

Oscarguy:

sound more and more like Criddic and his denial that most republicans are demon spawn and that Cheney and company are minions of Satan.

Isn't this all a bit over-the-top? I mean, really, did anyone actually say that Iraq was responsible for 9/11? If so, i do not recall it. I recall the notion that Hussein harbored and aided terrorist groups, which may have included al-Qaida, but I do not recall anyone saying that he had anything directly to do with the attacks. The link isn't a direct one to 9/11, but rather to terrorism and the War on Terror. President Bush has always maintained this, despite the rampant speculation and accusations from people who thought he was trying to link the event to Hussien. I don't think he ever was.

The second quote is just mean spirited. Most Republicans are the spawn of satan? Please! You can disagree with the general philosophy or with individual ideas, but this is true of all politics. I don't say that all Democrats are evil. It's just too generalized. I don't think anyone truly goes in lock-step to every idea either party has, but to say that most are bad apples is simply overstating an opinion and trying to turn it into fact.

What gets me the most is that all this comes out of a discussion about a high-profile movie that is not even about politics.

[FilmFan720]

I think Babel will be virtually non-existant nomination morning...it seems to be losing steam by the day. Anyone know how the Academy screenings of it have been?

[Anon]

I'm going to go out on a limb and bet that Rinko Kikuchi will win Best Supporting Actress. The love for Babel seems to be greater than the love for Dreamgirls (though only at this stage...the guilds will probably change that...) But this is the category that the Academy has a history of throwing out something left-of-field. Since nobody in contention is really 'owed' anything this year, I think it might just happen....

I don't see that happening. I really, honestly, truly don't see Babel making an impact at the Oscars. That's my prediction.

[FilmFan720]

Oh, I would gladly be proud enough Eric, but would also like to point out that musical lovers aren't a "gay thing."

[Eric]

Are we not mature enough to live in a world where show-tune lovers are proud to call themselves queens?

[The Original BJ]

i guess though with all the show tune loving queens on this board, you cannot make *predictions* based on some clips and other people's reviews.

Also, I'd like to say that it's not the purpose of this board for people to be ridiculed on the basis of their predictions. I don't take delight when other people are wrong, it's totally mean-spirited.

Furthermore, it's pretty ridiculous to ridicule people for their lousy predictions . . . when the nominations haven't even been announced yet?!

And how does two lines from MSNBC have ANY effect on whether or not Dreamgirls will be nominated for Oscars?

[FilmFan720]

I would also like to point out that not all of us are "show-tune loving queens" on this board. Some of us, like me, are "show-tune loving kings," or whatever the appropriate term for straight-men are. Don't confuse loving show-tunes for a sign of homosexuality. And don't confuse being homosexual for loving show-tunes:)