Dreamgirls or: How to Stop Discussing It and Talk - About Something Else

[Akash]

I'm gonna have to join Sabin and Eric on this one.

Again, Damien so sorry to add another negative comment. I actually wanted to wait before posting this so as not rain on your parade but well, other comments have compelled me.

As someone who really loved Gods and Monsters and Kinsey, I was sorry to see that Condon's gift with subpar actors and character delineation did not translate to a musical. At best it's a solid 2 and 1/2 star film. Conceptually it didn't really feature any fully-etched characters or at least give me a rooting interest in any of them. Beyonce is pretty bland and innocuous and the only performances that seemed somewhat complete were that of Eddie Murphy and Anika Noni Rose.

Hudson is indeed a great singer but my god, calm the f*ck down people! This is NOT great acting. She’s not bad at all, but she certainly does not deserve a nomination for anything....except maybe the Grammys where subtle musical deliveries are never rewarded anyway, so she'd be right up their alley!

And as for the great singing, yes yes, you can hit a note like nobody's business and bawl like a banshee but that hardly makes up for a lack of subtlety or inhabiting a character. Rewarding Hudson would be like giving Christina Aguilera an Oscar for her heart-tugging falseness and calculated note-hitting in her "performance" of "Beautiful."

Anyway back to Dreamgirls. I don’t care if this was in the original or not, but the damn thing celebrates exactly what it pretends to criticize – the whitewashing of black culture! I know some have defended the film by saying hey, that's how it was in the original. But I'm sorry, that just doesn't cut it. I think it was Eric (?) who correctly pointed out that when you adapt this kind of work you DO take on the original flaws as well. For better or worse, a piece of work that comes later carries the burden of cultural progression and enlightenment - and in this case, Dreamgirls suffers from not learning anything in an age of post-negritude, post-Harlem Renaissance, identity politics, and an overall African American academic enlightenment.

This is exactly the kind of film certain (not all, I know) white middle and upper middle class gay men may enjoy because it panders to an elite notion of "culture" that defines itself via the exclusion of those who helped create its very civility (the poor and the black). Dreamgirls celebrates a specific culture without ever challenging the status quo - even though the status quo is supported by a kind of cultural (and labor) exploitation.

Dreamgirls is better than Chicago yes - mostly because Chicago featured horrible singing and dancing - but also because there is a sense of joy (even if I wasn't affected by it) in Dreamgirls that was absent in Chicago. And also because on his worse day with his hands tied behind his back, Condon is a better director than that hack, Rob Marshall. But musical films may just not Condon’s thing.

I wanted to like this one. I really, really did.

[Sabin]

I will say that though I remain stunned as how bland my 'Dreamgirls' experience was, the audience broke out into applause three times. At the end, after Jennifer Hudson's big number, and her final tell off to Jamie Foxx. Not after "Listen", which I thought Beyoncé did a fine job in.

I remain uncertain about 'Dreamgirls'' Oscar prospects. If the Director's Branch passed over Baz Luhrmann, I think they may Bill Condon as well. I'd certainly prefer Condon to Innaritu or the two 'Sunshine' directors, or Eastwood for 'Flags', and I love the sensitivity of Bill Condon's direction in 'Gods and Monsters' and 'kinsey', but it's just not here.

[Anon]

Wow! Happy New Year, everyone! I had to go on an unexpected trip last week so have been off the board for a while. Didn't realize all the sparks that have been flying since!

Needless to say, I have not yet seen Dreamgirls since going away, as I had planned, but I hope to see it sometime this week and will report back with my review.

Glad to see it lived up to the buzz for some (although not for others).

[ITALIANO]

It's just good taste.

[Eric]

You have to want to relax. I could care fuck all if you have an aneurism knowing that somewhere someone likes a Bill Condon movie as much as any film by Bergman or Kurosawa.

[ITALIANO]

I'll try to, if you are less sarcastic.

[Eric]

And you've gone on record defending the timeless, ruthless standards of art against the iniquity of sentimental, personal baggage. You, too, can relax.

[ITALIANO]

I, however, trust Damien thinks Dreamgirls is as great as I think it is not.

Sure, sure, this is what you were supposed to say, now you can relax. Anyway, as I've said in other thread, it's not because of friendship. Something which I don't want to explain here, but I don't think it's friendship.

[Okri]

One could chalk it up to his nigh-deification of all things Spielberg, but Armond has had his day in the sun of relevance.

Which I do, quite frankly. The man has Hook in his top ten of 1991 list, and thought The Lost World was also worthy of the honor in 1997. And he thinks Before Sunset is one of the worst films of 2004.

[Eric]

In 2006, I've had to wonder if the fact that his political conservatism is expressing itself more often in his reviews (like his Road to Guantanamo piece) has been somehow connected to general decline of the credibility of conservatives among the general public. Having someone as clearly steeped in illogical thinking as White is among their ranks can't be comforting to rational-thinking Republicans. Perhaps that's the whole point: there's no such thing.

Yes, this is it exactly. I'm not concerned about his preference for WTC over United 93 (haven't seen either), but I am concerned about reviews like his recent one for We Are Marshall, which pretty clearly endorse accepting GWB as our nation's coach. Mostly concerned because it seems so opportunistic. J-Ro's leftist bent may skirt knee-jerk, but it's consistent with his entire body of criticism. White's is only consistent with his desire to say the least popular sentiment at any given moment.

[rain Bard]

Not utterly. In 2001, his dissertation of 'A.I.' was some of the best film criticism of the year. He jumped aboard that movie before many others followes suit. Lord knows, he got it right before I did; that took two viewings. One could chalk it up to his nigh-deification of all things Spielberg, but Armond has had his day in the sun of relevance.

I could bring up the old saw about the stopped clock, but I confess I've always been glad White's out there doing what he does, even if most of the time he comes across as nothing more than insane.

In 2006, I've had to wonder if the fact that his political conservatism is expressing itself more often in his reviews (like his Road to Guantanamo piece) has been somehow connected to general decline of the credibility of conservatives among the general public. Having someone as clearly steeped in illogical thinking as White is among their ranks can't be comforting to rational-thinking Republicans. Perhaps that's the whole point: there's no such thing.

[Sabin]

Not utterly. In 2001, his dissertation of 'A.I.' was some of the best film criticism of the year. He jumped aboard that movie before many others followes suit. Lord knows, he got it right before I did; that took two viewings. One could chalk it up to his nigh-deification of all things Spielberg, but Armond has had his day in the sun of relevance.

[Okri]

excepting maybe people like Armond White, who makes up his mind based off of the collective enthusiasm of the cinephile community and critical establishment and pretty much says the opposite

THANK YOU!!!! Armond White is so utterly useless.

[Eric]

Oh, I trust almost everyone's opinions

Oh do you? I don't.

I mean I trust that people (especially in the world of Internet communication) are forthcoming about what they like and what they don't like, not that I trust their opinions to be a reasonable way for me to judge whether a certain film truly is great or terrible.

But, considering you are arguing that Damien can't possibly like Dreamgirls as much as he says he does, and that he's letting his friendship with the director transmute into a belief that the film is a near-masterpiece, I understand what you're getting at. I, however, trust Damien thinks Dreamgirls is as great as I think it is not.

[ITALIANO]

Oh, I trust almost everyone's opinions

Oh do you? I don't.