ITALIANO wrote:And frankly stop splitting the world between "innocent little things" and ME - always a good "scapegoat" if only because I am anti-American and don't hide it.
Actaully I think of you as quite innocent, quite pure in your thoughts that Americans are evil and the rest of the world is good. It must be so nice to see the world such black and white concepts.
Big Magilla - wake up, it's the rest of the world which thinks so, not just me. (Actually I don't exactly think this way, and even if I did, it would be about American politics, not about American people. I have other ideas about American people, but not that they are evil).
But of course you can always think that the rest of the world is wrong and America is right.
ITALIANO wrote:And frankly stop splitting the world between "innocent little things" and ME - always a good "scapegoat" if only because I am anti-American and don't hide it.
Actaully I think of you as quite innocent, quite pure in your thoughts that Americans are evil and the rest of the world is good. It must be so nice to see the world such black and white concepts.
Big Magilla wrote:when Italiano started bringing up how he once had an opinion about the subject but was shot down for his comments,
Ah, so I'm not allowed to say such things. Well, Big Magilla, I have a memory, a good one, and you can't prevent me from using it, ok? I couldn't have imagined that things would have taken that direction - though honestly I don't think that what happened was that bad. Confrontations are very good and healthy sometimes, believe me.
I could use my memory again, if I feel like doing it. So prepare for more censorship (because yes, it IS censorship). The only things that you will never read in my posts are lies.
And frankly stop splitting the world between "innocent little things" and ME - always a good "scapegoat" if only because I am anti-American and don't hide it. If you have this responsability on the board, try to use it in a mature, objective way next time.
Steph2 wrote:Italiano, I think it's very clear that you and Aakash are both disliked by the Mafia. But let's be real, the most hated, baddest guy here is me
Oscar Guy, thank you for opening this thread for us (though it would have been just as easy to reopen the old thread and just move it to an appropriate forum, no?)
Big Magilla, I was seriously pissed off when you closed that thread. I don't mind you moving it to another forum, but closing it was such a blatant act of censorship. And as for these people who are so easily offended, I mean can't they just, you know, fucking deal? If you don't like something happening in ONE thread, just don't read it! That should have been your response to them. But of course you agree with them and are hiding behind the whole "I got complaints" argument instead of just admitting that you did what you did because you could.
I don't dislike anyone here, though I do get annoyed with some of you once in a while as you clearly get annoyed with me, but don't jump to conclusions and second guess my motives.
Quote (Sonic Youth @ Jan. 13 2008,22:20)
I'm not blaming anyone else for what I said...and you can choose not to believe it but I feel really bad for that to have happened this way.
There's no "choice", I can't believe it because of your own actions. It's very clear that you feel no remorse, other than the regret of posting the link yourself and having the thread resurface. And once again, your apology was not a real apology. Saying "Gee, I'm sure sorry I got caught" is not the same as saying, "I'm sorry." Bur you're a smart guy (a genius even! If one is to believe your childhood stories), so you obviously know this.
You tell me, o seer, what happened between us in Dec. '02 that might have brought on that sentiment.
Well ya got me there, child prodigy! You're right, I don't know what was going on back then. I was only fifteen and you were...how old exactly? That's right, an adult. A full fledged adult. And still trashing someone (behind his back) whose board you frequent and often take control of. The fact is Sonic Youth, I may not know the particulars of that time, but I certainly know how you treat Oscar Guy nowadays and it's not much different (and of course, he isn't the only victim). You once accused him of secretly hating the rest of us but I think it's YOU who harbors secret hate. And it all comes from your high opinion of yourself which has manifested itself in many posts (subtle and unsubtle).
Just recently you've said things like, "Wow I am sooo prescient" and "Yeah well *I* said this so and so ago and no one paid attention." Which is your way of trying to tell everyone how smart you are. And of course my ALL TIME FAVORITE is the one where you were playing Beethoven on your Fisher Price piano. That one still has me laughing (for which I will always be grateful to you) - Sonic Youth the child genius!
And something I had no intention of showing him? Sure, why not? Makes for great flame wars, and the board's been lacking in excitement lately.
Believe what you will but this was not about inciting a flame war. It was about calling you out on something, which you always do to others by the way (you can dish it out but you can't take it, can you?) and you keep ignoring the fact that Oscar Guy already knew about it before I said anything.
Also the "not intending to show him" part is ridiculous. Please stop acting as if you guys were doing something completely hidden from the rest of the world. This was an ONLINE FORUM and it was bound to come out sooner or later. It's not like you were trading the top secret "We hate Oscar Guy" ignition codes. Please. You were just being your normal self (which is sometimes petty, like many of us) and for once, sincerely revealing your lack of compassion.
As for the rest of your post, it's typical backed-up-in-a-corner trolling vindicitiveness
LMAO! Oh this one is beautiful! You do this kind of thing to other people all the time (and when you do, there's often little reason for it) and yet when I do it, it's vindictive? Now to be fair, you are not the only one who acts like a dick on this board from time to time, certainly there are others who do it too (including of course, me). But no one accuses them of starting a flame war or being vindictive, so why is it different here? Hmm, is it perhaps because I'm a woman? You probably wanted to write "bitch" but stopped yourself just short of that. Ok, I'll make it easy for you. I am a bitch. So you can go ahead and call me one. Feel free.
Still, ya did good. I admit it, this is all new to me and I'm thoroughly bemused. I haven't had anyone firebomb me so hard or dissect my personality and my inner-psychology on this board since... well, since never. (Okay, maybe hardly ever.) Which tells me I've been doing rather well covering up my hidden insecurites all this time. Finally, my psyche has been exposed. What a pity. Or, you could have just gotten it all wrong, but why bother to sway such firmly held convictions.
Oh I know I'm not wrong Sonic Youth. I'm not wrong at all. And I'm sure others on this board, the ones who have been paying attention, know that I'm not wrong. And deep down, YOU know I'm not wrong either. And of course I realize that by doing all of this, I am unfortunately paying tribute to your favorite topic - YOU. But this was something I couldn't get around if I wanted to take you on, so if it means placing you in the spotlight (your favorite place to be, except maybe at a child genius convention) then so be it. What other choice did I have?
But thank you for acknowledging your insecurities (they don't have to be identified, anyone who is halfway perceptive can identify them easily), I will give you that. That takes some balls to admit. Especially from you. I know it must have been difficult, you poor thing, and it's the most admirable thing you've written in a long time (well, ever since your post about musical theater and Sondheim, which was very intelligent. I must give you credit for that). So yes, I'm impressed that you admitted it. If I hadn't spent this whole time arguing with you, I'd almost want to give you a pat on the back just for that (and maybe even a hug).
But then what am I saying? You've proven, if nothing else, you are quite capable of hugging yourself.
Since I was censored (and Sabin asked about it) I'm going to repost the last response from Sonic Youth, and my last response to him. If he wants to respond again, he can.
FROM SONIC YOUTH
Quote (Steph2 @ Jan. 13 2008,19:09)
HA HA!
The peanut gallery speaks up again.
If someone's feelings were my primary concern, I wouldn't say to the aggrieved party "Yeah, that person's myspace page DID make jokes about your being fat. And look at this OTHER one. And this OTHER one... I'm only showing it for your benefit, you know."
If my primary concern was to incite a flame war, then that's what I'ddo.
And then you follow it up with "Ah, I was totally expecting that response." Just can't get enough of setting passive-aggressive traps and laying in wait, can you?
I'm not blaming anyone else for what I said. What I said was entirely my doing. As was bringing the thread to light which opened this can of worms. For that, I'm way sorry, and wouldn't have done it if I knew it would come to this. All hurt feelings cause because of that was my responsibility, and you can choose not to believe it but I feel really bad for that to have happened this way.
Quote
Right there, in your own words. No compassion.
You tell me, o seer, what happened between us in Dec. '02 that might have brought on that sentiment.
I'll wait...
("Oh, it doesn't MATTER, etc...")
What I said in Dec. '02 might not have been said in '03, '04, '05, etc. In fact, it wouldn't have been. As I said, that was our worst period, between him and I. I was furious with him, he was furious with me. There is the off-chance, you know, that it was in the heat of the moment. You're going to hold against me something I said five years ago, when you weren't around and don't know the exact circumstances? And something I had no intention of showing him? Sure, why not? Makes for great flame wars, and the board's been lacking in excitement lately.
Anyway, I felt bad for OG and it seems like he could use a friend around here.
How Joan of Arc of you.
But you're exactly right. That's why I put out the gesture to make things right towards him. Even though it happened five years ago and even though OG said he wanted to put it behind him. I felt bad, came forward and made what I thought was an apology and and a step toward reconciliation and clearing the air (whether you think it was adequate or not is of no real concern to me). If I didn't mean it, I wouldn't have done it. Did anyone else make an attempt?
I supposed I should have kept quiet. Maybe, in this bizarro universe, I could be a better person by rescinding my offer. Yet it still stands.
As for the rest of your post, it's typical backed-up-in-a-corner trolling vindicitiveness and not worth any effort on my part to take personally or seriously, certainly not worth trying to explain myself. I can flame as good as the rest of them. But that's just giving in to the lowest common denominator. Still, ya did good. I admit it, this is all new to me and I'm thoroughly bemused. I haven't had anyone firebomb me so hard or dissect my personality and my inner-psychology on this board since... well, since never. (Okay, maybe hardly ever.) Which tells me I've been doing rather well covering up my hidden insecurites all this time. Finally, my psyche has been exposed. What a pity. Or, you could have just gotten it all wrong, but why bother to sway such firmly held convictions. After all, I may very well have gotten some things wrong about you, too. I can only go by what I observe. And I suppose you'd say the same thing. So, we're in a quandary.
Not much more needs to be said, but just in case you should decide to take on my "family" comment for a - second? third? - time, I should mention that the ironic meaning behind the "family" comment flew way over your head.
As far as I'm concerned, there's nothing more that needs to be said between you and I on this matter. You're welcome to respond, insult, comprehend, not comprehend, make amends, declare war, scream and laugh at me, or whatever. Good luck to you. Take it easy.
That's right, Iataliano, perptuate the argument for as long as you can, and Akash, be sure to continue to do what you do so well, egg him on.
If I wanted to censor the original thread, I would have simply deleted it, but I didn't do that, did I?
And why are you guys picking on Cam? He had nothing to do with this. In his own words, he didn't even see the initial thread, yet you jump to the conclusion that he was the one doing the complaining. For your information, the people doing the complaining were people who happen to like all the combatants and hate to see them fighting.
The initial post was an innocent little thing that got quickly out of hand when Italiano started bringing up how he once had an opinion about the subject but was shot down for his comments, upon which Sonic and Eric went out searching for the original content which then spiraled even more wildly out of control. So, while Italiano did not cause the worst problems, his penchant for bringing up old grudges is what got it started.
I'm sorry if I offended anyone by saying that forgiving and forgetting was an American thing. It's a universal thing that some people have a harder time understanding than others.
Ok. Let's calm down. There's more animosity in this thread than there was in the old thread and it's not warranted.
I did not close the thread and I did not know about it before it was closed. Should the thread have been closed? No. Should it have been moved, probably.
I really don't want people jumping on Magilla for this. It's not like he goes off and close topics that he doesn't like. He tends to avoid them. Look at all those soap threads that degrade into gay orgies sometimes. He has never shut one of those down.
This is the first thread either of us have closed for any reason other than needing to open a new one when the old one got full.
But I think we need to dial back the rhetoric. Magilla does not get involved in this altercations very often at all, so that he's speaking his mind now means that he feels passionate enough about it to speak on it. His post is no different than any of the 100 other arguments that we've gone through on this board. We're all such different personalities that it's impossible to agree at the same time.
I think this whole mafia thing is highly disrespectful and is entirely unwarranted. No one here is in collusion. No one here is calculating a move to silence others. Cam doesn't have moderator privileges. Only Magilla and I do.
I don't think Magilla acted on anyone else's orders. We both heard concerns voiced about the direction of the thread and were concerned that it might spill over into other thread, which regardless of what we intend, does often happen.
So, let's move on. This topic was opened to complete the previous discussion, not to discuss censorship. Censorship would have been if Magilla had deleted the thread entirely or prevented anyone from seeing or reading what was said. This wasn't censorship. It was editorial discretion. It may not have been the best decision he or anyone else has ever made, but he made it and it's over. You've still got the freedom to discuss, that hasn't changed. No actual censorship occurred.
As for revealing the plaintiffs, I would be upset if anyone revealed me for voicing a concern privately to one of the moderators. If those individuals find they cannot be honest and open with us, then they won't come to us and issues that can be handled will not emerge. Not everyone is boisterously open about their opinions as many who've spoken on the thread, so let's respect their wishes and not request they be unnecessarily outed.
Edited By OscarGuy on 1200444666
Wesley Lovell
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
Steph2 wrote:Italiano, I think it's very clear that you and Aakash are both disliked by the Mafia. But let's be real, the most hated, baddest guy here is me
Oh no, you have just arrived here, I have a 10-year history of hate behind me
But this is why I asked Big Magilla the names of those who complained. But of course the Mafia will never expose itself so easily...
Italiano, I think it's very clear that you and Aakash are both disliked by the Mafia. But let's be real, the most hated, baddest guy here is me
Oscar Guy, thank you for opening this thread for us (though it would have been just as easy to reopen the old thread and just move it to an appropriate forum, no?)
Big Magilla, I was seriously pissed off when you closed that thread. I don't mind you moving it to another forum, but closing it was such a blatant act of censorship. And as for these people who are so easily offended, I mean can't they just, you know, fucking deal? If you don't like something happening in ONE thread, just don't read it! That should have been your response to them. But of course you agree with them and are hiding behind the whole "I got complaints" argument instead of just admitting that you did what you did because you could.
I apologize, but I added OscarGuy there because he is the man in charge, and based on his initial post here, supported Magilla's decision (or my buddy, as you so derogatorily stated...this is not a fight of friendship Akash).
Edited By FilmFan720 on 1200442024
"Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good."
- Minor Myers, Jr.
