Bent didn't receive any nominations. I didn't see the movie, but the play on which it was based was no great shakes.OscarGuy wrote:I think that might be the film about homosexuals that would finally win best picture, a movie about the Nazi persecution of gays.
81st Annual Academy Awards Nominations
"Y'know, that's one of the things I like about Mitt Romney. He's been consistent since he changed his mind." -- Christine O'Donnell
Thank you, Johnny Guitar, for having pointed out what others (including some I know well) also saw but hadn't the courage to say.
I have learned to deal with the psychology of people like Taki, Matthew, Zahveed - they have what in Italy we call "la forza dei mediocri". You are talking - not to them - about something serious, even important, in a language that you dont know well, and they suddenly write a short, often childish but always insulting post attacking something which, by the way, you never said. I know very well that what I say is perfectly rational and makes sense - and anyone can read what I write and see that. But they distort everything - this is their only talent - and then play the victim's role. And of course they find those who comes to protect them.
They are useless people. But they often win - being in a group also helps.
I have learned to deal with the psychology of people like Taki, Matthew, Zahveed - they have what in Italy we call "la forza dei mediocri". You are talking - not to them - about something serious, even important, in a language that you dont know well, and they suddenly write a short, often childish but always insulting post attacking something which, by the way, you never said. I know very well that what I say is perfectly rational and makes sense - and anyone can read what I write and see that. But they distort everything - this is their only talent - and then play the victim's role. And of course they find those who comes to protect them.
They are useless people. But they often win - being in a group also helps.
I never DEMANDED anything from anyone.Johnny Guitar wrote:Reza told Marco that he sounded American (yet curiously nobody has called out Reza for this "stereotyping of Americans") because of his post on Jan. 25 2009,05:45 - which, if you go back and look at it, is quite uncontroversial. Yet it provoked this response from Reza, which I read as a catty if not malicious joke at Marco's expense; and Taki joined in and essentially demanded of Marco why Hollywood is not making films about non-Jewish victims; why there is not a bias for Oscar-bait films about a great many other injustices. Reza's sentiment is understandable ("I'd like to see ''them'' flog this ''dead horse'' sometimes too") but nobody here has actually argued against it!
I just made an observation which is demonstably true: that movies about the other Holocaust victims, besides Jews, are virtually non-existent.
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Johnny Guitar
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I just read over the last several pages of this thread. The topic of the preponderance of Holocaust movies (which are frequently Oscar-bait, a fact I don't think anyone has denied) brought a response from Reza that they (i.e., Hollywood) don't want us to "forget." Uri, understandably, countered with a single line as to the reasons for these constant reminders--implicitly, i.e., even from such unsavory quarters as Dreamworks, Miramax, etc. There is a fine line between ridiculing self-congratulatory Hollywood elitist liberalism and ridiculing the memorialization of an historical occurrence whose truth is not only still debated, but also still provides fuel for geopolitical conflict in many parts of the world. As one could predict, message board one-liners in English among people from all over the world, who have all sorts of native languages and connotative ranges, may not be the best way to go about walking that fine line.
(For the record: nobody has said that Hollywood is free of opportunism and exploitation on the subject; nobody has denied that there should not be more focus in cinema also about non-Jewish Holocaust victims, or that there should not be more visibility about other atrocities, committed e.g. by the US government.)
Reza told Marco that he sounded American (yet curiously nobody has called out Reza for this "stereotyping of Americans") because of his post on Jan. 25 2009,05:45 - which, if you go back and look at it, is quite uncontroversial. Yet it provoked this response from Reza, which I read as a catty if not malicious joke at Marco's expense; and Taki joined in and essentially demanded of Marco why Hollywood is not making films about non-Jewish victims; why there is not a bias for Oscar-bait films about a great many other injustices. Reza's sentiment is understandable ("I'd like to see ''them'' flog this ''dead horse'' sometimes too") but nobody here has actually argued against it!
If I were Marco I would have refrained from going on about the childishness and low intelligence of the posters he chooses to dismiss - if one truly thinks so, what's the point except to vent one's emotions? - but at the same time I think a fair assessment is that he has a legitimate point. A few people have for some reason ganged up on him for reasonable and uncontroversial points he made earlier in the thread, and when he isn't nice & demure in response to these harassments, even more people have treated his responses as if they existed in a vacuum, as if he were the one initially singling out posters at random to attack.
(I occasionally come to Marco's defense like this because the old-timers here will recall well that he & I had more than my share of debates just like these once upon a time ... and I can't be accused of playing "favorites" either.)
(For the record: nobody has said that Hollywood is free of opportunism and exploitation on the subject; nobody has denied that there should not be more focus in cinema also about non-Jewish Holocaust victims, or that there should not be more visibility about other atrocities, committed e.g. by the US government.)
Reza told Marco that he sounded American (yet curiously nobody has called out Reza for this "stereotyping of Americans") because of his post on Jan. 25 2009,05:45 - which, if you go back and look at it, is quite uncontroversial. Yet it provoked this response from Reza, which I read as a catty if not malicious joke at Marco's expense; and Taki joined in and essentially demanded of Marco why Hollywood is not making films about non-Jewish victims; why there is not a bias for Oscar-bait films about a great many other injustices. Reza's sentiment is understandable ("I'd like to see ''them'' flog this ''dead horse'' sometimes too") but nobody here has actually argued against it!
If I were Marco I would have refrained from going on about the childishness and low intelligence of the posters he chooses to dismiss - if one truly thinks so, what's the point except to vent one's emotions? - but at the same time I think a fair assessment is that he has a legitimate point. A few people have for some reason ganged up on him for reasonable and uncontroversial points he made earlier in the thread, and when he isn't nice & demure in response to these harassments, even more people have treated his responses as if they existed in a vacuum, as if he were the one initially singling out posters at random to attack.
(I occasionally come to Marco's defense like this because the old-timers here will recall well that he & I had more than my share of debates just like these once upon a time ... and I can't be accused of playing "favorites" either.)
Is this the strangest, funniest argument ever on this board?
I have to take the side against Italiano in this as a bystander. This is the kind of argument where there is one person who is wrong but won't admit it, and everyone else is politely pointing it out to no avail. I've been on that end of an argument, and can understand being stubborn, but this is a little much.
I have to take the side against Italiano in this as a bystander. This is the kind of argument where there is one person who is wrong but won't admit it, and everyone else is politely pointing it out to no avail. I've been on that end of an argument, and can understand being stubborn, but this is a little much.
"Because here’s the thing about life: There’s no accounting for what fate will deal you. Some days when you need a hand. There are other days when we’re called to lend a hand." -- President Joe Biden, 01/20/2021
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Big Magilla
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Yes, play with words, Big Magilla. Hypocrisy may be useful in San Francisco, but not with me. The question - and his following comments - werent exactly innocent. And I was too honest not to reply - REPLY, because I didn't start - accordingly.Big Magilla wrote:Question 1 - it was a question, not an accusation.
Please tell me if I am wrong or not now, and bring your proofs. Because you see Big Magilla - I am Italian, so I value emotions alot. Love, but even hatred, are both respectable. So you can hate me - no problem at all, I swear. But sorry, facts are facts, and when it comes to facts, one must see who's wrong and who's right, and admit it. Do it, Big Magilla, and MAYBE it will be a first step towards intellectual independence.
Ah, so I never said that he's American. Sorry, but you can't use that against me this time. Tomorrow maybe.
As for your last question, the answer could also be that MAYBE (I repeat: maybe - it's a doubt) intelligent people usually don't find anything to criticise in what I say. Tough to accept, eh?
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Big Magilla
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Question 1 - it was a question, not an accusation.ITALIANO wrote:Big Magilla wrote:You were doing so well for so long.
Just two questions Big Magilla - and please reply. What's worse - treating someone like a child or accuse someone of racism? And who started this fight, me or this Matthew? I'm waiting for your reply to both questions now, without "but"s or "yet"s.
Another thing now: show me WHERE and WHEN I said that this Matthew is American.
Question 2 - you did. It was a dialogue before you wrote "There are some really intelligent people on this board - the majority. I will always accept criticism from them. And then of course we have the Takis, the Zahveeds, the Matthews... I promise that I will try to be tolerant with them too."
Another thing - his name is Matthew not THIS Matthew. You did not say he was American, I was merely pointing out that he wasn't just in case you thought he was.
As long as we are asking questions, I have one for you. WHO are the REALLY INTELLIGENT PEOPLE on the board you will ALWAYS accept criticism from? Inquiring minds want to know.
Big Magilla wrote:You were doing so well for so long.
Who's "condescending" now?
Just two questions Big Magilla - and please reply. What's worse - treating someone like a child or accuse someone of racism? And who started this fight, me or this Matthew? I'm waiting for your reply to both questions now, without "but"s or "yet"s.
Another thing now: show me WHERE and WHEN I said that this Matthew is American.
And finally - he may be on this board since the time of Emil Jannings and Janet Gaynor, but if he accuses me of not explaining my ideas about America, or of not having intellectual integrity, he obviously doesnt know me well.
And from now on, before accusing me like an offended grandfather, do me a favor: read carefully the posts, see exactly who started what and who said what, and you will see that it's rarely me.
Edited By ITALIANO on 1232983195
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Big Magilla
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Italiano, please stop these condescending attacks on other posters. No one here is your enemy, not Taki, not Reza and certainly not Zahveed. Now you are talking to Matthew as though he were a child in need of a spanking. No wonder he and other long time posters seldom bother to post anything anymore.
You were doing so well for so long. Now you are back in that mode where anyone who disagrees with you, or God forbid, questions something you say is automatically put down for what you perceive to be their intellectual inferiority.
Since you seem to have forgotten who Matthew is, let me remind you that he was the 23rd member of the board to sign up on January 1, 2003, you were the 69th so in a sense he is "older" than you here. Oh, and he's Australian, not American.
You were doing so well for so long. Now you are back in that mode where anyone who disagrees with you, or God forbid, questions something you say is automatically put down for what you perceive to be their intellectual inferiority.
Since you seem to have forgotten who Matthew is, let me remind you that he was the 23rd member of the board to sign up on January 1, 2003, you were the 69th so in a sense he is "older" than you here. Oh, and he's Australian, not American.
matthew wrote:I'm not saying that you can't criticize 'America' (although it would be good if you actually define what you mean by 'America' before criticizing it.) All I'm saying is that if you are going to do so, please do it with a bit of intellectual integrity...
Oh, about my intellectual integrity I don't think there can be doubts on this board. And you must be new here, because in the past I've explained often what to me is wrong in the American society and why. I won't do it anymore for a simple reason: those here whose opinion I care for know it already and - while they may not agree totally with me - understand what I mean. And then - how shall I put it - there are those like you, Matthew, or like Zahveed. People who will never understand not because they are necessarily stupid, but because they have lived all their lives like under a glass bell. To them, to those like you, I will always be "the enemy", only because I say truths too "outside" their way of thinking, truths that they are too scared to see and to accept - their little world would crumble. I repeat, it doesnt have anything to do with idiocy in this case - it's more a social, cultural limitation, so it's not really anyone's fault (well, some can overcome it really, but this is another thing). It's also, I must admit, a strength in many cases - this American lack of self-doubt (and this regardless of the fact that you are American or not).
Anyway, as I say to others here - if my posts disturb you so much, if you can't see I wouldn't even say the truth (which can be discussed) but DEFINITELY the intellectual integrity behind them, just don't read them. I like confrontation, but only with those who can handle it - those on my level or, even better, on a higher level even. Don't be offended, but I must be honest and say that no, you dont belong to either of these two categories. It would really be humiliating, for different reasons, to both of us.
And it's obvious that anyone who mentions the Jews in a context of racism DOES consider them a race.
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ITALIANO wrote:Matthew, it IS possible to criticize America, the American culture and the American way of thinking - strange as it may seem to you. And it has nothing to do with racism, believe me. Actually I think that it's not only possible - it SHOULD be done. By the American themselves.
But anyway, saying that the way a group of people think - be it a nation, or an award-giving group, or a political party - is easy to understand or predict isn't necessarily offensive. At least I can do it often, and I've shown it here.
Biut most importantly, the idea that Americans are a "race" - and a persecuted one! - is so ridiculous that really, doesnt need to be commented, we all know that. (Matthew's truly racist, and cliched, idea that Jews are a race SHOULD be commented, though, and it's of course very dangerous).
There are some really intelligent people on this board - the majority. I will always accept criticism from them. And then of course we have the Takis, the Zahveeds, the Matthews... I promise that I will try to be tolerant with them too.
(Oscar Guy: if you read carefully, it was Matthew this time. Just to prevent you:)
Since when was it my idea that Jews were a race? I can't stand the idea of even thinking about things in terms of race, and I never said that they were. I merely asked the question if anyone else thought that...
But what is this American way of thinking you are talking about? YOU are the one who writes these cliches without any evidence to back it up. You say that something is a product of 'the American Mind' and then give no insight into what this 'American Mindset' is our what makes it American. You give no evidence to back up your claims; you just write these throw-away, nonsense lines.
I'm not saying that you can't criticize 'America' (although it would be good if you actually define what you mean by 'America' before criticizing it.) All I'm saying is that if you are going to do so, please do it with a bit of intellectual integrity...