The Official Review Thread of 2007

[Penelope]

So I'm not permitted to debate the quality of a film, and, in the process, I cannot insist how tired I am of seeing the same type of film over and over again?

This has only to do with me in the context of how frustrated I am at a) seeing the same str8 teenage nerds begging to get laid over and over and over and b) seeing two mediocre movies (actually, several this year if you include 3:10 to Yuma and Into the Wild) raised up to being some kind of superlative cinematic achievements.

There's a certain level of hypocrisy on both sides here; me, yeah, because I'll admit I'm tired same str8 white teenage male wetdreams passing for cinema art, and y'all for defending these same movies but then turning around and berating a genuinely terrific film like, say, Sunshine for regurgitating themes and plots of previous sci-fi/horror flicks.

You imply that I should overlook the (barely) competent direction of Knocked Up and Superbad simply because they're so entertaining and contain "truths." Well, so do movies like Beautiful Thing, Get Real and Another Gay Movie, but as much as I enjoyed those films--as well written and/or acted they may be--I cannot raise them up to the canon because the direction is either perfunctory or thoroughly bland. Such is the case with Knocked Up and Superbad--the latter is certainly better than the former, but not by much, and both are the ugliest-looking films I've seen this year. Hell, even the much maligned Little Miss Sunshine had more visual pinache than either of these films. (And I'd insist that Harold & Kumar Go To White Castle is a marvelously directed film.)

And there is a cruelty in both of these films that is unsettling and off-putting: in Knocked Up, everybody but Katherine Heigl and Seth Rogan are among the most unpleasant and mean-spirited characters ever gathered together in a film; in Superbad, the movie goes out of its way to demean and belittle the female characters.

Look, one just knows when one sees a genuinely great film--even one that has its minor (or even, in the case of Sunshine, its major flaws)--a film that that has a combination of script, acting, directing and all the other branches combining in the right way--I saw it just the other night in an early Antonioni film, Le Amiche, which could just about be the most perfect woman's picture ever made--films that take you out of yourself, that make you feel and think (and comedy, when done right, certainly makes you feel and think), that does it with originality and intelligence, that makes the cinematic journey simply spendid. Knocked Up and Superbad, I'm afraid, are just not such films.

[Eric]

This whole heterosexuals vs homosexuals discussion is very American ... my welcoming bed is still visited by a huge number of men (and some women in the past) ... (but not bisexuals - I don't believe in bisexuality)

Good thing you don't believe in labels. :;):

In any case, I extend an open invitation to my bed to any heterosexual males who wish to share it with me.

[OscarGuy]

Now, now, girls, you're all pretty.

[Sabin]

And I never opposed heterosexuality on this board (I'd hate to attack minorities) - just idiocy, and frankly, Sabin, this isn't among your brightest moments.

I'm really not certain I even want to acknowledge this point.

I was *directly* addressing a point brought up by Penelope which is entirely relevant, and brought you into it as something of a joke. "American homosexuals and Italiano." More because you're not American, rather than being a homosexual. I say confidentally that wherever you specificially get your opinions, I'm fairly certain they're not derived from homosexuality.

I would argue that this is far from not being one of my brightest moments. I've had far dimmer moments than this. I don't see how I'm saying anything dubious in the least.

This whole heterosexuals vs homosexuals discussion is very American, because Americans typically view things only in terms of "you" and "us", enemies and friends, wrong and right.

Hetero vs. Homo is not American, but it is "made" American through our Purityrannical society of imposed sexual restrictions. I agree with you there, in part. However, I think if you dismiss the argument, you are ignoring a potentially fascinating conversation about the innate influence of sexuality. If that is inherently American, good because it can allow for interesting discourse. Not here maybe...

...But of course you can defensely keep believing that this is not true, and that we are and have always been "this" or "that" - and in fact I detect a good deal of defensiveness in some of these tense reactions to Penelope's posts.

I would put your entire previous paragraph in quotations because I believe that all of it is true. So true in fact that it should be noted that the two MALE STRAIGHT leads in 'Superbad' end up in bed together, one telling the other how much they love the other! Clearly nothing for Damien here.

In addition, I'm not the defensive one. Penelope is stating that he is sick of movies about str8 people getting laid while I am saying that this happens to be a good one. Honestly, Italiano, I think you're way off base here criticizing me when I have done or said nothing to warrant these accusations. Especially considering that most of these points you brought up are me reiterating what Penelope is saying.

Already this conversation has gone past its expiration date and it just started as well. This is not the place for me to talk about 'Superbad'.

[ITALIANO]

(by which I mean to say all you proud American homosexual individuals on this board, and Italiano)

I don't know when and where I let my sexuality interfere with my opinions about movies, honestly. While I am proud of my sexuality, I wouldn't say that I am especially proud of my homosexuality - though I admit that I enjoy it alot. And I never opposed heterosexuality on this board (I'd hate to attack minorities) - just idiocy, and frankly, Sabin, this isn't among your brightest moments.

This whole heterosexuals vs homosexuals discussion is very American, because Americans typically view things only in terms of "you" and "us", enemies and friends, wrong and right. And especially when it comes to sexuality, this way of thinking is obviously weak, because sexuality is something much more fluid and much less defined than Americans (even too desperately) hope it is. I have a Mediterranean approach to all this, I know even too well that sex is something often unpredictable, and my welcoming bed is still visited by a huge number of men (and some women in the past), straight and gay and anything in between (but not bisexuals - I don't believe in bisexuality). My frequent trips to the Middle East have made me even more convinced that what's so fascinating about sex is that though we might try to define it at all costs, it's still too instinctual and unpredictable - thank god. Labels can be good politically, necessary even sometimes, I admit it - but let's face it, they pale when compared to the wonderful complexity of sexuality in real life.

I'm not very interested in these American movies about teenagers' first approaches to sex - I don't find them very funny, generally speaking, though I'm sure that there can be exceptions. But the very fact that here we talk about "our" and "your" movies means that they are completely disconnected from reality, because if there is a (magical, though difficult) moment in a person's life when sexuality is BOTH ours and yours - confused, changing, omnidirectional - it's that one. When sex is sex, and the gender of the object of our attraction isn't too relevant, and while we may want to get into the bed of the prettiest girl in our school, we often end up in the bed of our best friend.

But of course you can defensely keep believing that this is not true, and that we are and have always been "this" or "that" - and in fact I detect a good deal of defensiveness in some of these tense reactions to Penelope's posts.

[Sonic Youth]

I was sick to death of movies about straight boys trying to get laid 23/24 years ago, so I just didn't go to any of them (including Risky Business). And there's no way I am going to see a movie called "Knocked Up" no matter how rapturous the reviews are.

And you also see no necessity to chime in every time to put people of different opinions and different persuasions in their place, is the point.

[Damien]

I was sick to death of movies about straight boys trying to get laid 23/24 years ago, so I just stopped going to them (including Risky Business) (except for Mystery Date -- that was outstanding ). And there's no way I am going to see a movie called "Knocked Up" no matter how rapturous the reviews are.

[Sonic Youth]

No, actually, now, it is about you. I have a great deal of respect for your intelligence and discriminating taste that to see you championing a pair of shallow, poorly directed movies is just so frustrating and sad.

I'm sorry you guys still have issues over the fact you couldn't get laid in high school. You're str8 white men, you fucking rule the world! Get over it, already.

No, Penelope. You are making it all about yourself. When you can't let a simple, appreciative comment about a movie go by without you interjecting a nasty comment every single time, then it's all about you.

I know you see plenty of bad movies, as much as the rest of us do, and they're left basically uncommented by you. So there is something particular about these sorts of movies. When I asked you, "Penelope, is it possible that adolescent/post-adolescent heterosexual behavior and the insecurities and fears that drive it are beyond your comprehension?" I can see I wasn't far off. I'm sure it's not beyond your comprehension, but you have a special resentment all stored up for movies like Superbad and Knocked Up, which I guess appears as if they wear a heterosexual ideoloy on their sleeve. I figured as much when you called them "needlessly cruel" (which I REALLY don't get.) I understand your reasons, and being told "Do something about it. Make your own movies" isn't nice or warranted. But Pelelope, it's your personal hangup, and it goes too far to punish or gripe at everyone who dares to like a film you don't. Snark at the movie industry, or our heteronormative society. But what did WE do to deserve your wrath? Personally identify with a film you don't personally identify with?

No, we don't have our American Graffitti and Ridgemont High. The fifty and sixty-somethings have their American Graffitti. The thirty and forty-somethings have their Ridgemont High. And now this generation has its Superbad. Why should we keep making War is Hell movies when we already have "All Quiet on the Western Front"? Why should we keep making love stories when we already have "Casablanca"? Why do we need anymore pop songs about teenage love when we had The Beatles and Motown? Because as long as universals remain universal, they're going to continue to be made. And I know you know this.

As for "poorly directed", I didn't see it that way. It's very plain and straightforwardly made, but in no way incompetent. It's as well made as it needs to be. I thought "Harold and Kumar Goes to White Castle" was a poorly directed film. And yet, it was still very funny with some terrific comic performances, and it exploded (while sometimes acknowledged) Asian stereotyps in nifty, rude ways, sometimes with a palpable defiance. The filmmaking wasn't great, but it didn't hinder anything. And the same goes for "Superbad". Anyway, anyone who goes to a movie like "Superbad" and expects nothing less than artistry, or uses very fine direction as a yardstick to measure quality with is like Rabbi Benglesdorf in Philip Roth's "The Plot Agaist America." (And I'm paraphrasing...) "The pompous [ad hominem] knows everything. It's too bad he doesn't know anything else."

As for the movie itself, I can't think of another teen comedy less cruel, less un-mean spirited and more open hearted than Superbad. It's refreshing, honest and unpretentious, and there's no sick-making moralizing. The protaganists may be losers, but they have self-awareness and self-respect (okay, except for McLovin'.) and aren't mean-spirited at all. And unlike, say, "The Wedding Crashers" it doesn't fall back on homophobic anxieties to get laughs.

And frankly, Seth Rogen and Bill Hader are funnier than John Belushi and Dan Ackeroyd ever was. (Oh yes I did!)

[Penelope]

Ok, rolo, I can totally accept that comparison; however, I'm thankful that I didn't need to witness Michael Cera and Jonah Hill making out. Still, aside from Cera's marvelous performance and some occasional set-pieces, this extravagant regard for Superbad is a complete mystery to me (I guess it's the Million Dollar Baby of 2007).

[Sabin]

I will be astonished if Judd Apatow is not the Entertainer of the Year.

[rolotomasi99]

Look, I was a teenager who was also an outcast and wanted to get laid, but how many freaking movies do we have to see about nerdy str8 boys wanting to get laid? You guys get everything from American Graffiti to Fast Times at Ridgemont High to Superbad and what do I get? Another Gay Movie. Enough already.

penelope, you realize SUPERBAD was just a remake of AND YOUR MOTHER TOO, right?
both are stories of two young boys on the cusp of entering adulthood. they have been close all their lives and are starting to feel some seperation anxiety, but the homophobic nature of society will not let them admit their feelings for each other. they decide to embark on one last hurrah of immaturity (road trip/party). they spend most of the movie scheming to get the girl/girls, but in the end we see their true love is each other. the movie ends with the boys sadly and awkwardly saying goodbye to their adolescence and each other. the story may present itself as two boys out to party hard and get laid, but is really about how male friends are unable to express their feelings for each other. there is even a superiority aspect tearing them apart (class in the mexican film, academics in the u.s. film).

i personally loved the film. i find FAST TIMES AT RIDGEMONT HIGH and all other crude teen movies reprehensible, so i was shocked at how much i enjoyed this movie and its characters. i heard the dialogue was really vulgar, but i found the script to be surprisingly insightful. like the scene where cera's character wonders why women are not as enamored of men's boners as men are of women's breast. as a gay man, i found that to be hilariously obersvant of the dichotomy of heterosexual-dynamics.

yeah, the cop characters were annoying, but the comedic timing of the two actors was quite brilliant ("so, he was an african jew..."). i did not see KNOCKED UP, but i was pleasantly surprised by SUPERBAD...and i am not one to tolerate stupid hetero comedies.

[Sabin]

I'm sorry you guys still have issues over the fact you couldn't get laid in high school. You're str8 white men, you fucking rule the world! Get over it, already.

Again, I don't think this is about me anymore and I don't understand why I'm not allowed to like 'Superbad' because I rule the world, when I very clearly don't. I know, I know..."I" rule the world, but I promise you that I don't. "I" may make up the entire demographic you're fed up with and "I" may be incredibly problematic to the political process and impede progress in this country through "my" conservative agenda, but I am living on a couch right now and I have some funny, valid stories about not getting laid in high school, so I don't see the problem with finding the merit in 'Superbad' that you've turned yourself off to.

Not to blow this out of proportion but it seems like every once in a while something starts up where some of the gay people on this board (which might account for some 75% of the posters) get incredibly frustrated with the country's conservative ageda (or something) and say something like "they'll never change". As a member of this board for going on eight years now, I think I deserve to not to be lumped in with "them".

re: Harry Potter
I just think the series ends with Harry bending Draco over. If there's one thing that the series seems to be building to, it's that. And then Ron watches and beats off. Their rivalry seems right out of 'Showgirls', and Hogwerts seems like some gay fantasy camp where little British boys discover their sexuality by learning magic. I don't mean this in a bad way. It's actually one of the few interesting subtexts in the series.



Edited By Sabin on 1191253581

[Penelope]

No, actually, now, it is about you. I have a great deal of respect for your intelligence and discriminating taste that to see you championing a pair of shallow, poorly directed movies is just so frustrating and sad.

I'm sorry you guys still have issues over the fact you couldn't get laid in high school. You're str8 white men, you fucking rule the world! Get over it, already.

And you never answered me, what makes Harry Potter gay? Ben Foster in 3:10 to Yuma? That's gay. Daniel Craig emerging from the surf in Casino Royale? That's gay. What the hell is gay about Harry Potter?

[Sabin]

Look, I was a teenager who was also an outcast and wanted to get laid, but how many freaking movies do we have to see about nerdy str8 boys wanting to get laid? You guys get everything from American Graffiti to Fast Times at Ridgemont High to Superbad and what do I get? Another Gay Movie. Enough already.

This isn't about me anymore, is it?

(Inicidentally, all three of those movies? Amazing.)

The reason I champion 'Superbad' is because most of "ours" are terrible and this one isn't. Neither is 'Knocked Up'. "You" (by which I mean to say all you proud American homosexual individuals on this board, and Italiano) have several of "your" own also. If they're not good enough, do something about it. Write your gay coming of age masterwork. I'm not kidding. It's ridiculously easy to get gay-themed material solicited these days.

We're going to keep getting str8 movies about nerds trying to get laid, and most of them aren't going to be very good. We're also going to keep getting gay movies about nerds trying to get laid, and most of them aren't going to be very good either. If you're sick of the str8 ones, just stop going to them. Draw the line in the sand, like I did with Harry Potter...which by the way is SO FUCKING GAY!

[Sonic Youth]

Look, I was a teenager who was also an outcast and wanted to get laid, but how many freaking movies do we have to see about nerdy str8 boys wanting to get laid? You guys get everything from American Graffiti to Fast Times at Ridgemont High to Superbad and what do I get? Another Gay Movie. Enough already.

Yeah, but why do you have to ruin our fun?

I mean, interjection after interjection...