Y&R
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OscarGuy
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Ok, so it looks like whoever (probably Flipp) suggested that they are planning a baby switch between Ashley and Sharon was right on. Ashley has just agreed to be committed...which will put both in the mental hospital at the same time and Sharon's already having Braxton-Hicks contractions...
Wesley Lovell
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
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OscarGuy
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I guess we'll remain differently opined about the cancer shaving. To each their own and had I seen the Ashley one prior, I might think differently.
As for the writing, I'm not sure what's going on. It had such great promise with new cast additions and such, but then they started getting rid of their more interesting characters or sidelining them (I'm really sad to see Nikki go...for all her faults, those final scenes she had with Victor were terrific). While I think batshit-crazy Patty story could use a bit of trimming, I'll agree the actress is playing it quite well.
I wish they would do something wholly more interesting with Chance. Hopefully his being new to the show is what's keeping him out of being a major player at the moment, but they seriously need to give him more to do.
As for the writing, I'm not sure what's going on. It had such great promise with new cast additions and such, but then they started getting rid of their more interesting characters or sidelining them (I'm really sad to see Nikki go...for all her faults, those final scenes she had with Victor were terrific). While I think batshit-crazy Patty story could use a bit of trimming, I'll agree the actress is playing it quite well.
I wish they would do something wholly more interesting with Chance. Hopefully his being new to the show is what's keeping him out of being a major player at the moment, but they seriously need to give him more to do.
Wesley Lovell
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
OscarGuy wrote:Y&R has been in a tiny funk for the past few weeks, but I must give the writers credit. Yesterday's episode with Lily deciding to take her own hair and not let the cancer do it was very poignant and her final scene was achingly bittersweet. It certainly made up for the lack of strong storylines the show has generated recently.
I couldn't disagree more with you. I thought the scene was totally over-the-top, unempowering and rendered almost implausible with that fake-ass WIG of hair that Lily was supposedly shaving off. It was actually laughable. The only thing that kept me interested was how hot Cane looked (it was almost distracting). That whole "shaving my head to beat cancer" thing was done much better and more dramatically when Ashley had cancer some years ago. I know that they were going for a poignant moment here, but it was a fail for me. They skipped all the beats and went straight to Lily with shaven head smiling in a mirror. It was poor writing. And this is coming from someone who thinks that the Lily/Cane relationship is one of the strongest on the show at the moment as well as one of the more believable ones.
On the other hand, I do agree with you that the show is totally inconsistent and unable to sustain momentum, which leads me to think that there are some major headwriter issues, rather than the level below that who are scribing the better stories that haven't been on this week. There are excellent days/weeks (MJ, Kay/Jill, Ashley gaslighting) followed by absolute crap (Amber/Deacon/Daniel, Kevin and the Chipmunk crap, JT/Victoria's pulled-out-of-thin-air marriage on the rocks storyline). This week, in particular, has been C-plot week and it's been terribly boring; I've barely managed to get through the show.
I have been watching the Kish clips that Penelope posts here and I'm really enjoying that storyline. I don't have enough time to invest in the entire show of OLTL, but I'm happy that at least one soap isn't afraid to explore a real gay storyline.
Edited By flipp525 on 1250783143
"The mantle of spinsterhood was definitely in her shoulders. She was twenty five and looked it."
-Gone With the Wind by Margaret Mitchell
-Gone With the Wind by Margaret Mitchell
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OscarGuy
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Y&R has been in a tiny funk for the past few weeks, but I must give the writers credit. Yesterday's episode with Lily deciding to take her own hair and not let the cancer do it was very poignant and her final scene was achingly bittersweet. It certainly made up for the lack of strong storylines the show has generated recently.
My problem with Y&R lately is that it has been on a huge roller coaster of greatness. It has its peaks and then plummets to crap and it keeps this cycle going. It's rather disappointing at times.
My problem with Y&R lately is that it has been on a huge roller coaster of greatness. It has its peaks and then plummets to crap and it keeps this cycle going. It's rather disappointing at times.
Wesley Lovell
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
Wow. That's adding insult to injury. I know you were upset when I gave up on the show a few weeks back, but Y&R was really disappointing me, while OLTL is consistantly hitting it out of the park--taking risks and really going there, aided by wonderful writing and acting. And today is a Fish/Kyle/Nick day!
"...it is the weak who are cruel, and...gentleness is only to be expected from the strong." - Leo Reston
"Cruelty might be very human, and it might be cultural, but it's not acceptable." - Jodie Foster
"Cruelty might be very human, and it might be cultural, but it's not acceptable." - Jodie Foster
I seem to recall several articles in various mediums, waxing poetic about the gay storylines coming down the pipeline on Y&R. Now, it's all some sort of stunt to show how despicable the straight characters are? What complete and utter bullshit.
From Daytime Royalty in the new Soap Opera Weekly:
Shockwaves were sent through Genoa City when Adam seduced Rafe and Phillip III came back to Genoa City announcing that he's gay, but don't expect the show to take a dip in those murky waters again.
"At this point, we are not doing a gay story, and we never actually were doing a gay story," says co-head writer Scott Hamner. "What we were playing with Rafe was the lengths to which Adam will go to accomplish his goals. And what we were really seeing was that he would stop at nothing. And, at this point, I don't see a future for Rafe and Adam."
From Daytime Royalty in the new Soap Opera Weekly:
Shockwaves were sent through Genoa City when Adam seduced Rafe and Phillip III came back to Genoa City announcing that he's gay, but don't expect the show to take a dip in those murky waters again.
"At this point, we are not doing a gay story, and we never actually were doing a gay story," says co-head writer Scott Hamner. "What we were playing with Rafe was the lengths to which Adam will go to accomplish his goals. And what we were really seeing was that he would stop at nothing. And, at this point, I don't see a future for Rafe and Adam."
"The mantle of spinsterhood was definitely in her shoulders. She was twenty five and looked it."
-Gone With the Wind by Margaret Mitchell
-Gone With the Wind by Margaret Mitchell
In watching the Kyle/Fish story unfold on OLTL, I'm really starting to see Y&R's "gay storyline" as the epic fail everyone else seems to have called it out as months ago. There is something so believable and organic about Kyle and Fish's dynamic, backstory and overall dramatic tension that fits so well into the soap genre, allowing the elements of their relationship to be slowly revealed in the time-honored tradition that soaps like Y&R used to excel at. Both actors are committed to telling a love story, not just a gay story, a subtle distinction that is shining through and making OLTL one of the most watchable soaps currently on air.
It's clear that Adam is not even gay; his seduction of Rafe was simply a necessary "evil" employed to maintain his ruse. The writers had the golden opportunity to write a very believable storyline in which Adam realizes that he actually is more attracted to Rafe than he is to the more benign and uptight Heather giving the audience a twist on the bad guy falls for the good guy story. Where that story has ended up is pretty much in the dustbin.
Phillip III's homosexuality feels tacked-on and unexplored. Did living in Australia (home of some of the most gorgeous men on the planet, I might add) allow for him to finally come out of the closet and live the life of a sexually active gay man? How did he go from alcoholic teetering on the edge of suicide and in the closet to opening up a bar? Where is he living now? The writing has left a lot to be desired.
I'm also over the "Will Dru return?" saga. Victoria Rowell needs to just suck it up and come back or fade away. Everyone in the industry has had to make sacrifices in order to keep on working and it's a very different world from when she left in 2006(?). If she wants to tell the stories she wants to tell, she should start writing her own soap or write another book. The show will hire her as an actress, not as an actress/writer/EP and she needs to just start getting over it. Also, I agree with the poster who mentioned that a Dru return makes no dramatic sense at the moment. The best time would've been at the height of all that Karen stuff since Dru is such a polar opposite to that character and fed a different part of Neil's appetite for women.
It's clear that Adam is not even gay; his seduction of Rafe was simply a necessary "evil" employed to maintain his ruse. The writers had the golden opportunity to write a very believable storyline in which Adam realizes that he actually is more attracted to Rafe than he is to the more benign and uptight Heather giving the audience a twist on the bad guy falls for the good guy story. Where that story has ended up is pretty much in the dustbin.
Phillip III's homosexuality feels tacked-on and unexplored. Did living in Australia (home of some of the most gorgeous men on the planet, I might add) allow for him to finally come out of the closet and live the life of a sexually active gay man? How did he go from alcoholic teetering on the edge of suicide and in the closet to opening up a bar? Where is he living now? The writing has left a lot to be desired.
I'm also over the "Will Dru return?" saga. Victoria Rowell needs to just suck it up and come back or fade away. Everyone in the industry has had to make sacrifices in order to keep on working and it's a very different world from when she left in 2006(?). If she wants to tell the stories she wants to tell, she should start writing her own soap or write another book. The show will hire her as an actress, not as an actress/writer/EP and she needs to just start getting over it. Also, I agree with the poster who mentioned that a Dru return makes no dramatic sense at the moment. The best time would've been at the height of all that Karen stuff since Dru is such a polar opposite to that character and fed a different part of Neil's appetite for women.
"The mantle of spinsterhood was definitely in her shoulders. She was twenty five and looked it."
-Gone With the Wind by Margaret Mitchell
-Gone With the Wind by Margaret Mitchell
OscarGuy wrote:Of course, wouldn't it be even more soapy that she does find out (Nikki was so wanting to tell her in the hallway yesterday)...then, she gets mopey and falls for Philip IV, who later rocks her boat again and dumps her because he's gay?
I'm pretty sure that P4 (Chance) is supposed to be straight, but that would be fun just to see Heather knocked down a bit.
Here's another great Michael Muhney interview from The Advocate. I can only think of a couple instances where a recast was this successful. There doesn't seem to be a better, more daring actor that could've taken over this role. And I think it's a plus that he's unfamiliar with daytime.
Re: the article...of course, Christian LeBlanc wanted that kind of storyline -- he doesn't have anything to do right now!
Interestingly, Michael Baldwin started on the show in a similiarly devious way. If I recall correctly, he was only supposed to be a limited-run character. However, the audience really responded to him and his character was expanded.
Edited By flipp525 on 1247243193
"The mantle of spinsterhood was definitely in her shoulders. She was twenty five and looked it."
-Gone With the Wind by Margaret Mitchell
-Gone With the Wind by Margaret Mitchell
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OscarGuy
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Re Adam & Rafe's future: It's possible and would be soapy indeed. And I think Muhney hints as much in that interview you posted on facebook. There are a couple of turns of phrase that he starts down a road while turning back in his future statements that suggest perhaps that is indeed what is happening.
And, why would anyone think it was oral sex. You don't have to be naked for that and, besides, it would be just as easy for Adam to top Rafe b/c at least then he can justify and play with it in his head as it was just another "opening".
Mary Jane has gone froot loops, but who knows what will happen there?
And, I feel bad for Heather. I think she needs to be taken down a peg or two and maybe needs to develop a heart at some point. Of course, wouldn't it be even more soapy that she does find out (Nikki was so wanting to tell her in the hallway yesterday)...then, she gets mopey and falls for Philip IV, who later rocks her boat again and dumps her because he's gay?
And, why would anyone think it was oral sex. You don't have to be naked for that and, besides, it would be just as easy for Adam to top Rafe b/c at least then he can justify and play with it in his head as it was just another "opening".
Mary Jane has gone froot loops, but who knows what will happen there?
And, I feel bad for Heather. I think she needs to be taken down a peg or two and maybe needs to develop a heart at some point. Of course, wouldn't it be even more soapy that she does find out (Nikki was so wanting to tell her in the hallway yesterday)...then, she gets mopey and falls for Philip IV, who later rocks her boat again and dumps her because he's gay?
Wesley Lovell
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
Do we think that Adam will, against his own better judgement, actually develop feelings for Rafe out of this fling? If they had any idea how to write good soap opera, that's the direction they'd go.
Also, did you see in that Michael Muhney interview on AfterElton.com that he interprets these encounters as sex? It was a fair bet to think that all they'd done was have oral sex, but I think the character and (now the actor) have strongly implied otherwise. Or maybe it's just my need to have the mental image of Adam topping Rafe that is clouding my head.
Mary Jane rocks! Her teaming up with Adam is lending more credence to the baby-switch idea. I think both of them are making great villains.
Can we please get a scene where Heather finds out that Adam is cheating on her WITH A GUY?! On top of Phyllis slapping her this week, that would probably make my year. Self-righteous little bitch.
Also, did you see in that Michael Muhney interview on AfterElton.com that he interprets these encounters as sex? It was a fair bet to think that all they'd done was have oral sex, but I think the character and (now the actor) have strongly implied otherwise. Or maybe it's just my need to have the mental image of Adam topping Rafe that is clouding my head.
Mary Jane rocks! Her teaming up with Adam is lending more credence to the baby-switch idea. I think both of them are making great villains.
Can we please get a scene where Heather finds out that Adam is cheating on her WITH A GUY?! On top of Phyllis slapping her this week, that would probably make my year. Self-righteous little bitch.
"The mantle of spinsterhood was definitely in her shoulders. She was twenty five and looked it."
-Gone With the Wind by Margaret Mitchell
-Gone With the Wind by Margaret Mitchell
Michael Muhney is doing so much more with this role than Chris Engen was ever capable of. He plays all the beats of a scene; you can see the character making decisions. And the actor makes choices, he's not just smirking and slouching through his scenes. Yesterday, when Adam realized that he would have to scrap his break-up speech and turn the whole encounter into another seduction, the viewer could see MM scrambling at first, dancing around the accusations and then finally settling into a plausible (and successful) tactic. I'm not sure what CE's previous acting work was, but MM is really making me forget about his entire run. And while I'm not thrilled about certain parts of this story (why, in this day in age, we have to be protected from the ghastly image of TWO MEN KISSING! is truly insulting) I'm invested in it because I think the recast is a success.
Yani Gelman needs to step up his game a bit to come out of the cardboard-ness of his character, but he's not a negligible performer by any means.
Yani Gelman needs to step up his game a bit to come out of the cardboard-ness of his character, but he's not a negligible performer by any means.
"The mantle of spinsterhood was definitely in her shoulders. She was twenty five and looked it."
-Gone With the Wind by Margaret Mitchell
-Gone With the Wind by Margaret Mitchell
I thought the Phillip reveal and confrontation were handled well, especially given Thom Bierdz's limitations as an actor (he's never been particularly vibrant on-screen). In this arena, his stand-offishness and general vacancy work well for the character and the highly-contrived situation these characters currently find themselves confronting.
Phillip Chancellor III was always self-involved. He was raised that way. He had this mother who basically used him as a tool to beat Katherine with and he had Katherine who spoiled him and fought with his mother over everything. Things came easily to him, but never because of anything he really did; just who he was. And that's how TB is playing it, basically, "any guy w/ the Chancellor name would have gotten what I did, so I'll just give them a new improved me and give Cane a family. This should work great." He doesn't see the emotional damage, because he never valued the relationships with Jill, Katherine, Nina, etc. in the first place.
Also, I think it's very telling that Jill isn't sure he's Phillip and Nina knows right away. Because I think Jill really never knew her son. Jill actually likes Cane much more than she did Phillip, simply because he does care about her and does understand her. And when Katherine had her attack, it was Cane who was distraught and trying to help her. Phillip looked on as a bystander, the position he thinks he's always held in the family. He's loved only because he's Phillip II's son. It's ironic that Cane was loved because he truly loved them and something in both Katherine and Jill responded to that.
So, I think Phillip's explanation of why he did what he did rang true...because it's always been about him. Does that make any sense?
Tricia Cast most definitely gets the MVP award for the past couple episodes. She is so damn compelling (and she hasn't acted in years!) Honestly, Penelope, I didn't see Billy Miller's supposed range in this episode. He was just sort of there for me. I did see his chest at the Athletic Club though!
Someone on this show should just kill Devon. Him acting all indignant and "big-man" around Cane was laughable. If I had been Cane, I would've thrown a brick at his face.
I'm interested to see how the baby switch storyline will be addressed because I thought that was one of the better written storylines of the past couple years. Jess Walton and Jeanne Cooper (and Melody Scott Thomas, to a lesser extent) acted the hell out of those scenes.
Edited By flipp525 on 1246999039
Phillip Chancellor III was always self-involved. He was raised that way. He had this mother who basically used him as a tool to beat Katherine with and he had Katherine who spoiled him and fought with his mother over everything. Things came easily to him, but never because of anything he really did; just who he was. And that's how TB is playing it, basically, "any guy w/ the Chancellor name would have gotten what I did, so I'll just give them a new improved me and give Cane a family. This should work great." He doesn't see the emotional damage, because he never valued the relationships with Jill, Katherine, Nina, etc. in the first place.
Also, I think it's very telling that Jill isn't sure he's Phillip and Nina knows right away. Because I think Jill really never knew her son. Jill actually likes Cane much more than she did Phillip, simply because he does care about her and does understand her. And when Katherine had her attack, it was Cane who was distraught and trying to help her. Phillip looked on as a bystander, the position he thinks he's always held in the family. He's loved only because he's Phillip II's son. It's ironic that Cane was loved because he truly loved them and something in both Katherine and Jill responded to that.
So, I think Phillip's explanation of why he did what he did rang true...because it's always been about him. Does that make any sense?
Tricia Cast most definitely gets the MVP award for the past couple episodes. She is so damn compelling (and she hasn't acted in years!) Honestly, Penelope, I didn't see Billy Miller's supposed range in this episode. He was just sort of there for me. I did see his chest at the Athletic Club though!
Someone on this show should just kill Devon. Him acting all indignant and "big-man" around Cane was laughable. If I had been Cane, I would've thrown a brick at his face.
I'm interested to see how the baby switch storyline will be addressed because I thought that was one of the better written storylines of the past couple years. Jess Walton and Jeanne Cooper (and Melody Scott Thomas, to a lesser extent) acted the hell out of those scenes.
Edited By flipp525 on 1246999039
"The mantle of spinsterhood was definitely in her shoulders. She was twenty five and looked it."
-Gone With the Wind by Margaret Mitchell
-Gone With the Wind by Margaret Mitchell
Have you seen today's episode yet? It fucking rocked!!!! I was absolutely GLUED to the TV--especially the performances of Tricia Cast (Nina) and Billy Miller (Billy), they both portrayed their rage and emotion brilliantly. Awesome stuff.
"...it is the weak who are cruel, and...gentleness is only to be expected from the strong." - Leo Reston
"Cruelty might be very human, and it might be cultural, but it's not acceptable." - Jodie Foster
"Cruelty might be very human, and it might be cultural, but it's not acceptable." - Jodie Foster