Damien wrote:
Moron. If you had been paying attention -- or done your homework -- you would know that even people who had liked Giuiliani enough to vote for his re-election in 1997, were sick of him by 2000/2001 when his signature issue -- fascist methodology to fight crime -- had been rendered an after thought. His poll numbers were very low,
Those of us who live right outside of the city, namely Long Island, were well aware of his reputation. I remember clearly people talking about voting for Guiliani in the coming senate race. Not rewriting history,
Two Letters in the NY Daily News, reflecting the sentiments about that loathesome man from people in the know:
Giuliani and the firefighters Bronx: As a 9/11 father and 39-year veteran of the NYPD, I proudly took part in the "Rudy Giuliani: Urban Legend" video to speak the truth. I, my family and friends still mourn for our beautiful son Christian, who met a needless and brutal death at the hands of the negligent Giuliani administration. Hundreds, if not thousands, of relatives and firefighters condemn this guilty, heartless and maniacal man who should never be President of this wonderful country that my son served as a Marine before joining the FDNY in 2001. Al Regenhard
Bellerose: On Oct. 29, 2001, my two sons were sworn in as firefighters, the first class after 9/11. They graduated Dec. 31, 2001, after just eight weeks. Their class was shortened so the graduation could occur that day. What a coincidence, Giuliani's last day in office! What should have been a day of celebration for graduates was "The Rudy Giuliani Show." I was disgusted that his ego took precedent over a full training regimen and tainted this special graduation. Dorothy Baccari
"Y'know, that's one of the things I like about Mitt Romney. He's been consistent since he changed his mind." -- Christine O'Donnell
BY HELEN KENNEDY
Tuesday, July 17th 2007
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Obama girl is back and she has a new friend: Giuliani Girl. And she's bound to give Hizzoner's campaign a little agita.
In a sequel to last month's sexy Internet hit, "I've Got a Crush on Obama," a new video clip features a musical (and pillow-fight) smackdown in New York City between two skimpily dressed models backing Democratic Sen.Barack Obama (D-Ill.) and Republican former Mayor Giuliani.
While the original Obama Girl video featured a catchy tune and sweetly goofy lyrics, the new production by Temple University senior Leah Kauffman and New York producer Ben Relles is edgier.
"Giuliani Girl" Adelina Kristina croons, "I'm gonna be wife No. 4" as pictures of the mayor's three wives flash on the screen.
"Obama Girl" Amber Lee Ettinger ripostes, "Giuliani Girl, just stop your fussin'/At least Obama didn't marry his cousin."
Both campaigns - neither of which had anything to do with the video - refused to discuss it.
Watched by more than 3 million people, the Obama Girl video had better ratings than any of the presidential debates and spawned several pale imitations, including "American Idol" contestant Taryn Southern's lesbian ode to Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-N.Y.), "Hott4Hill."
Interest in the Giuliani Girl sequel yesterday crashed Relles and Kauffman's humor Web site, barelypolitical.com.
The naughty video hit the Internet on the same day GOP candidate Mitt Romney started airing a new ad fretting that American culture has become "a cesspool of violence, and sex, and drugs, and indolence, and perversions."
Romney, who is trying to keep family-values voters from defecting to upcoming candidate Fred Thompson, was slammed by some social conservatives for sitting on the Marriott board because the hotel chain offers porn in its rooms.
"Y'know, that's one of the things I like about Mitt Romney. He's been consistent since he changed his mind." -- Christine O'Donnell
At least Rudy has a record that can be debated on its merits. Cleaning up the city, fighting crime, reducing taxes, etc. All that can be debated. His role in the reaction to 9/11 can also be debated. He has something to offer. Thompson can't point to anything specific he has done that people can base their vote on. Maybe that's a good thing, but more likely it will leave a void in his campaign. He can talk about the future and about past administrations, but there is little he can say about his own accomplishments when compared to other candidates.
I think you're going in a few different directions here, and I couldn't begin to tell you how you segued from how debatable Rudy's record is to how he has something to offer. I'm really quite amazed:
'Rudy has a record that can be debated on its merits' --> Apocraphyal pseudo-accomplishments Rudy has involved himself in --> 'All of this can be debated' --> 'He has something to offer'.
I don't know where you got this outside of the fact that your logic was leading you to an entirely different conclusion and that was unacceptable. However, the purpose of my post was pretty much to point out that the shit is rising beneath Rudy Guiliani's feet at an alarming rate and it's starting to stink. The fact that he has nothing he can toss back against charges of gross insensitivity vis-a-vis, oh let's say, the total worthlessness of NYFD walkie talkies.
criddic3 wrote:This IS wishful thinking. Guiliani could well have been elected as a senator from NY had he not dropped out. Considering he was elected more than once as the mayor of NYC, I wouldn't say he was unelectable. His reputation even before 9/11 was that of the man who "cleaned up the city."
Moron. If you had been paying attention -- or done your homework -- you would know that even people who had liked Giuiliani enough to vote for his re-election in 1997, were sick of him by 2000/2001 when his signature issue -- fascist methodology to fight crime -- had been rendered an after thought. His poll numbers were very low, and people were fed up with his racist stances, his battles against cultural institutions, his out of control ego, his mean-spiritedness. And most especially people despised the way he treated his wife as he stepped out with his mistress.
Don't try to rewrite history, asshole. Those of us who live in New York City and had to endure this despicable man know how things were.
Those of us who live right outside of the city, namely Long Island, were well aware of his reputation. I remember clearly people talking about voting for Guiliani in the coming senate race. Not rewriting history, but perhaps we run in different circles? (LOL) Or perhaps there are two versions/viewpoints of his effectiveness as a mayor.
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About Mitt Romney. I don't have a particular problem with his being Mormon, but it makes many people uneasy that his stances on numerous issues have changed back and forth so frequently. Many politicians change their views over the years, as do a lot of people, but rarely as frequently. The one effective line that John McCain had in the three debates among Republicans was the one where he pointed out Romney's tendency to change his mind depending on what office he was running for. This is far more disturbing than his religion, since I don't believe that will particularly hinder his ability to govern. He simply doesn't have the appeal of someone who would win in the general election, and he doesn't seem to fit the part.
"Because here’s the thing about life: There’s no accounting for what fate will deal you. Some days when you need a hand. There are other days when we’re called to lend a hand." -- President Joe Biden, 01/20/2021
Damien wrote:As for Romney, polls indicate that many people won't vote for a Mormon, although ironically most of these bigots are probably Republicans who will affect the primary and not Democrats and Independents who probably couldn't care less about his religious beliefs (I know I don't) but won't vote for him because of his (current) right wing posiitons.
The biggest irony is that Mormons are the most consistently Republican voters in the country.
My probably-not-complete awareness of the Mormon church is, they're very censorious of any sex outside of married/man-on-top/get-it-over-quick, and they believe material success in life makes one a member of The Elect, more apt to receive greater rewards in heaven.
In short, it seems to me they ARE the current Republican party.
Damien wrote:As for Romney, polls indicate that many people won't vote for a Mormon, although ironically most of these bigots are probably Republicans who will affect the primary and not Democrats and Independents who probably couldn't care less about his religious beliefs (I know I don't) but won't vote for him because of his (current) right wing posiitons.
The biggest irony is that Mormons are the most consistently Republican voters in the country.
criddic3 wrote:This IS wishful thinking. Guiliani could well have been elected as a senator from NY had he not dropped out. Considering he was elected more than once as the mayor of NYC, I wouldn't say he was unelectable. His reputation even before 9/11 was that of the man who "cleaned up the city."
Moron. If you had been paying attention -- or done your homework -- you would know that even people who had liked Giuiliani enough to vote for his re-election in 1997, were sick of him by 2000/2001 when his signature issue -- fascist methodology to fight crime -- had been rendered an after thought. His poll numbers were very low, and people were fed up with his racist stances, his battles against cultural institutions, his out of control ego, his mean-spiritedness. And most especially people despised the way he treated his wife as he stepped out with his mistress.
Don't try to rewrite history, asshole. Those of us who live in New York City and had to endure this despicable man know how things were.
"Y'know, that's one of the things I like about Mitt Romney. He's been consistent since he changed his mind." -- Christine O'Donnell
It's axiomatic that the vile Giuliani couldn't have been elected dog catcher in New York City on September 10, 2001,
-- Damien
This IS wishful thinking. Guiliani could well have been elected as a senator from NY had he not dropped out. Considering he was elected more than once as the mayor of NYC, I wouldn't say he was unelectable. His reputation even before 9/11 was that of the man who "cleaned up the city." Even today some people refer to him this way. It is interesting that some people like to build up hatred personally toward a candidate to the point that they think everyone has the same view, or should.
I don't like Hillary Clinton, and many people don't like her, but I cannot reasonably state that she is unable to gain the White House next year. Certainly I'm hoping she doesn't, but I think she has a shot at it. The same thing is true of Guiliani, should he win the nomination. He's got a chance of being elected with a strong campaign and a solid VP choice.
People are generally not that interested in politics, but most people do know how elections play out. They include mudslinging and accusations that are amplified for the purpose of turning off voters from opponents. Different groups and unions, lobbyists and other advocates, are likely to be on the sidelines throwing mud that the candidates they like can't if they want to be elected.
So we have to largely go with what we knew about each candidate before they announced their run. In the case of Clinton and Guiliani, many people have already made up their minds about who they are. All the extra efforts to dissuade voters will be for those "independent" and "uncertain" voters. This time around, though, the front-runners are so well-known generally that very little will change unless a truly huge surprise happens. Especially in the case of Hillary Clinton. I've read numerous articles about how her celebrity, her profile, will help or hurt her in the general election. What will Bill Clinton's role be, and how will his presence help her with "swing" voters? And I've read about how Guiliani's image as a leader on 9/11 could suffer under the scrutiny caused by certain groups bent on preventing his nomination.
All of this is expected. I'm not going to be swayed, bounced around like a ping-pong ball. Let things play out in the coming months, and let the chips fall where they may. I'm rooting for Guiliani and I think he could make it, despite the interest generated by Fred Thompson. Yet I'm gonna wait and see what happens. It's still early. If somehow Guiliani falters in his campaign, then it will almost certainly be Thompson's chance. He's okay, but I haven't seen anything spectacular from him. He seems very conservative in what he says, but he didn't offer much in his public service as a senator.
At least Rudy has a record that can be debated on its merits. Cleaning up the city, fighting crime, reducing taxes, etc. All that can be debated. His role in the reaction to 9/11 can also be debated. He has something to offer. Thompson can't point to anything specific he has done that people can base their vote on. Maybe that's a good thing, but more likely it will leave a void in his campaign. He can talk about the future and about past administrations, but there is little he can say about his own accomplishments when compared to other candidates.
"Because here’s the thing about life: There’s no accounting for what fate will deal you. Some days when you need a hand. There are other days when we’re called to lend a hand." -- President Joe Biden, 01/20/2021
taki15 wrote:From what I read the insiders of the Democratic Party consider Mitt Romney, not Giuliani, as the most formidable candidate the Republicans could field.
What's your opinion on that?
This is not an expression of wishful thinking, but I honestly don't see any viable candidates among the clowns running for the Republican nomination.
Giuliani has such baggage, including a propensity at picking the worst possible people as trusted aides. The Mafia-tinged, ethically-challenged (to put it kindly) Bernie Kerick -- whom Giuiliani got to know when this jerk was his driver -- was his Police Commissioner and the man he pushed to be head of Homeland security. The head of his operations in South Carolina -- an important early primamry state -- got busted for cocaine, and his liason to Southjern conservatives was none other than prostitute-frequenting, diaper wearing, sanctity-of-marriage hypocrite David Vitter.
It's axiomatic that the vile Giuliani couldn't have been elected dog catcher in New York City on September 10, 2001, but, beautifully, people are coming around to see that he was just as much of a schnuck on and after September 11, and that he has exploited the tragedy to become an extraordinarily rich man. He also has plenty of skeletons from his mayoral regime. And there's a clip of him which, when played in campaign ads, will truly sink him. It's Giuliani saying [paraphrasing], "Every night I thank God that George Bush is my president." Good judgment, asshole.
As for Romney, polls indicate that many people won't vote for a Mormon, although ironically most of these bigots are probably Republicans who will affect the primary and not Democrats and Independents who probably couldn't care less about his religious beliefs (I know I don't) but won't vote for him because of his (current) right wing posiitons.
"Y'know, that's one of the things I like about Mitt Romney. He's been consistent since he changed his mind." -- Christine O'Donnell
Even though I am a foreigner, I watch closely the american elections since the 2004 primaries, and have great fun doing so.
From what I read the insiders of the Democratic Party consider Mitt Romney, not Giuliani, as the most formidable candidate the Republicans could field.
Thanks for this, Damien. I had a nagging wonder why the GOP would ever consider Giulani anyway. If he's the current star, how low do the others even GET?
...Oh. Now I get it. criddic likes him! Giulani's GOT to be unbelievable.
I enjoyed the Rove reference. I'll watch for it in the future.
C.
HOW AMERICA'S MAYOR JUST LOST HIS GOLDEN GLOW
By Thomas Schaller
July 15th 2007
Republican primary voters warming to Rudy Giuliani must now think twice: This election cycle, he's well on his way to becoming the GOP's John Kerry.
In 2004, as Democrats scrambled to prove their military toughness, the Massachusetts senator seemed like a life preserver in choppy electoral seas. He had served in Vietnam. He won three Purple Hearts. Surely his military cred was beyond question.
Enter the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth and, in a Washington minute, Kerry's greatest asset was turned into a liability.
With the country soured on the Iraq war, now the GOP is the party scrambling for a candidate with unassailable national security credibility. Giuliani, to the smart money, has looked like the ideal choice.
Wrong. The International Association of Firefighters' 13-minute video released last week is just the latest straw to bend Rudy's back. The most incendiary charge the video makes: that Rudy's failure to procure proper emergency radios meant 121 city firefighters in the north tower failed to hear their evacuation orders - and were left to die.
Are the charges fair? Politically, it's almost beside the point. They are credible. They are communicated effectively. And they are part of a growing chorus of frontal challenges to Giuliani's image as a man who can keep America safe. Suddenly, his electability - until now, his greatest strength - is thrown into serious question.
Consider: In 1996, Giuliani established the Office of Emergency Management, which supervised a series of simulated attacks designed to prepare the city for rapid response and damage control. But former NYPD Chief of Department Lou Anemone has said that, although the World Trade Center was ranked in the top 20 attack targets of more than 1,500 sites across the city, "We never had any discussion ... never even had a drill or exercise there."
Worse, despite the '93 World Trade Center bombing, Giuliani chose to locate the city's Emergency Command Center in WTC 7, a building so damaged by the falling debris on 9/11 that it collapsed that afternoon. That's why the mayor was prowling the streets that tragic morning giving ad hoc press conferences.
Within weeks of the attacks, Daily News columnist Juan Gonzalez reported that city officials were failing to enforce regulations requiring workers to wear respirators.
The new IAFF video may at times go over the top - as when it suggests that Rudy was more interested in securing millions of dollars in gold than in recovering the bodies of fallen firefighters. But on the whole, it is devastating.
Especially damning is its condemnation of Giuliani's testimony to the 9/11 Commission, saying that the firefighters heard but ignored their orders to evacuate the north tower. "Mayor Giuliani twisted the heroism of my brother to suit his own mistakes of that day," says Rosaleen Tallon, sister of fallen Ladder 10 Firefighter Sean Patrick Tallon.
It's Karl Rove's formula executed to perfection: Find a candidate's strength - then attack it with passion, precision and not a single pulled punch. And this time, it's not just about an image of personal heroism. It's about decisions that may have cost others their lives.
Forget about how many pictures of Giuliani in drag you can find through Google. If he's their 2008 nominee, Republicans may wish they had picked a candidate with more Purple Hearts than political black eyes.
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Schaller, professor of political science at the University of Maryland, Baltimore County, is author of "Whistling Past Dixie: How Democrats Can Win Without the South."
"Y'know, that's one of the things I like about Mitt Romney. He's been consistent since he changed his mind." -- Christine O'Donnell
