Academy disqualifies an Oscar-nominee!
-
- Emeritus
- Posts: 4312
- Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2003 8:49 pm
Re: Academy disqualifies an Oscar-nominee!
Did you guys read the detailed statement from the Academy regarding this disqualification?
I'm not arguing against the removal of the nomination or anything, but to play devil's advocate, I can sort of understand why Bruce Broughton would be feeling a little bit annoyed by all of this. The Academy went to such great lengths to explain that the composer and lyricist aren't mentioned anywhere on the eligibility lists sent to voters, so that it's just the song and film voters are choosing, and what Broughton did -- bringing attention to the fact that HE wrote it -- violated this code of anonymity. But...come on. It's not like it was a SECRET that globally renowned U2 wrote the Mandela song, or that Tony-winning Book of Mormon composer was behind the Frozen number, or that Spike Jonze had a hand in the Her song. And it's not like anyone pretends that voting for any other category is based on anonymity either -- anyone voting for Blue Jasmine's script obviously knew they were nominating Woody Allen.
I'm not saying what Broughton did was kosher, but it does seem a little strange that the big studios can pull out whatever campaign stops they want to under the guise of promotion, and Broughton's e-mails get his nomination revoked. You really have to wonder, if this wasn't such an outrageous nomination from such an obviously unworthy movie, would the result have been the same? Would the nomination for "Let It Go" have been revoked if its songwriters had engaged in similar behavior?
I'm not arguing against the removal of the nomination or anything, but to play devil's advocate, I can sort of understand why Bruce Broughton would be feeling a little bit annoyed by all of this. The Academy went to such great lengths to explain that the composer and lyricist aren't mentioned anywhere on the eligibility lists sent to voters, so that it's just the song and film voters are choosing, and what Broughton did -- bringing attention to the fact that HE wrote it -- violated this code of anonymity. But...come on. It's not like it was a SECRET that globally renowned U2 wrote the Mandela song, or that Tony-winning Book of Mormon composer was behind the Frozen number, or that Spike Jonze had a hand in the Her song. And it's not like anyone pretends that voting for any other category is based on anonymity either -- anyone voting for Blue Jasmine's script obviously knew they were nominating Woody Allen.
I'm not saying what Broughton did was kosher, but it does seem a little strange that the big studios can pull out whatever campaign stops they want to under the guise of promotion, and Broughton's e-mails get his nomination revoked. You really have to wonder, if this wasn't such an outrageous nomination from such an obviously unworthy movie, would the result have been the same? Would the nomination for "Let It Go" have been revoked if its songwriters had engaged in similar behavior?
Re: Academy disqualifies an Oscar-nominee!
Did it have a handle shaped like a horse's head?OscarGuy wrote:My grandmother had a music box that played the love theme from The Godfather. I was familiar with The Godfather long before I ever saw it.
Re: Academy disqualifies an Oscar-nominee!
This is such a delightfully creepy detail. I love it.OscarGuy wrote:My grandmother had a music box that played the love theme from The Godfather. I was familiar with The Godfather long before I ever saw it.
"The mantle of spinsterhood was definitely in her shoulders. She was twenty five and looked it."
-Gone With the Wind by Margaret Mitchell
-Gone With the Wind by Margaret Mitchell
- OscarGuy
- Site Admin
- Posts: 13668
- Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 12:22 am
- Location: Springfield, MO
- Contact:
Re: Academy disqualifies an Oscar-nominee!
My grandmother had a music box that played the love theme from The Godfather. I was familiar with The Godfather long before I ever saw it.
Wesley Lovell
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
- rolotomasi99
- Professor
- Posts: 2108
- Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2003 4:13 pm
- Location: n/a
- Contact:
Re: Academy disqualifies an Oscar-nominee!
The Zarathustra moment from WALL-E was played as a joke. The joke only works if you know that piece of music was used in 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY. The entire point of using the music is that the audience knows it is from another movie, so there is no chance the filmmakers were trying to pass it off as their score.Mister Tee wrote:I don't think the Artist/Vertigo case is close to this. The use of that music, however little sense it made, wasn't sneaked in, but clearly presented as homage -- much the way the use of the Zarathustra theme was in Wall E.
If THE ARTIST had a moment where one of the characters was acting crazy or was in a shower, and the famous PSYCHO strings played, that would be comparable to the WALL-E moment. What THE ARTIST did was take a big emotional moment from the movie and decided to use a gorgeous piece of music written by someone else to create a heightened emotional response. Basically, Bource was unable to write a good piece of music himself, so he just stole someone else's work. I would like to think most Academy members recognized Bernard Hermann's amazing (and I must emphasizes un-nominated) score, but similar to why THE TRUMAN SHOW was disqualified (as OscarGuy pointed out), enough of the Academy might have been tricked into thinking Bource wrote that piece of music. After all, unlike WALL-E which only used a few seconds, Hermann's score plays for two solid minutes in THE ARTIST.
Any way you look at it, the Music branch has some strange rules and standards. I am glad the Board of Governors did the right thing and pulled this nomination. The whole thing has been an embarrassment.
Last edited by rolotomasi99 on Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"When it comes to the subject of torture, I trust a woman who was married to James Cameron for three years."
-- Amy Poehler in praise of Zero Dark Thirty director Kathryn Bigelow
-- Amy Poehler in praise of Zero Dark Thirty director Kathryn Bigelow
Re: Academy disqualifies an Oscar-nominee!
It was not until I checked "Godfather love theme" on YouTube that I discovered that the main theme and the love theme were different, as I always thought of the main theme as "the theme" from The Godfather.Mister Tee wrote:The odd thing about The Godfather situation is, if you told people, ignore the parts of the score lifted from the earlier film, many could still have voted for it because of the familiar main theme/Godfather waltz.
Re: Academy disqualifies an Oscar-nominee!
No, it is. . . Satan!Sonic Youth wrote:It is God's will.
- Sonic Youth
- Tenured Laureate
- Posts: 8010
- Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 8:35 pm
- Location: USA
Re: Academy disqualifies an Oscar-nominee!
Getting nominated and getting disqualified are the two best things to happen to this song.
"What the hell?"
Win Butler
Win Butler
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 19382
- Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 3:22 pm
- Location: Jersey Shore
-
- Tenured Laureate
- Posts: 8679
- Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 2:57 pm
- Location: NYC
- Contact:
Re: Academy disqualifies an Oscar-nominee!
I don't think the Artist/Vertigo case is close to this. The use of that music, however little sense it made, wasn't sneaked in, but clearly presented as homage -- much the way the use of the Zarathustra theme was in Wall E.
Th odd thing about The Godfather situation is, if you told people, ignore the parts of the score lifted from the earlier film, many could still have voted for it because of the familiar main theme/Godfather waltz. That music is now probably even better known than the so-called Love Theme, but, as Oscar Guy says, at the time Paramount had far more aggressively pushed the music in question -- hoping to echo the success they'd had lyricizing the Love Story theme two years prior ("Where Do I Begin?" became a top 10 hit for Andy Williams), they marketed a version of the Love Theme with lyrics called "Speak Softly, Love". When that turned out to have been lifted almost bodily from an earlier film, the branch had no choice but to disqualify it.
Incidentally, hardly noticed, but they disqualified the Nebraska score this year on the same basis: the theme many of us liked (and would have voted for) trned out to have been used in an earlier obscure film from the same composer.
Th odd thing about The Godfather situation is, if you told people, ignore the parts of the score lifted from the earlier film, many could still have voted for it because of the familiar main theme/Godfather waltz. That music is now probably even better known than the so-called Love Theme, but, as Oscar Guy says, at the time Paramount had far more aggressively pushed the music in question -- hoping to echo the success they'd had lyricizing the Love Story theme two years prior ("Where Do I Begin?" became a top 10 hit for Andy Williams), they marketed a version of the Love Theme with lyrics called "Speak Softly, Love". When that turned out to have been lifted almost bodily from an earlier film, the branch had no choice but to disqualify it.
Incidentally, hardly noticed, but they disqualified the Nebraska score this year on the same basis: the theme many of us liked (and would have voted for) trned out to have been used in an earlier obscure film from the same composer.
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 19382
- Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 3:22 pm
- Location: Jersey Shore
Re: Academy disqualifies an Oscar-nominee!
Along these lines, her are some of Harvey's dirty tricks...
http://www.vulture.com/2014/01/miramax- ... eline.html
http://www.vulture.com/2014/01/miramax- ... eline.html
- OscarGuy
- Site Admin
- Posts: 13668
- Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 12:22 am
- Location: Springfield, MO
- Contact:
Re: Academy disqualifies an Oscar-nominee!
Two points:
drea...the films had already been nominated when the e-mail was sent. While it was a blatant attack ad, his actions didn't cause a film to be nominated (or to have lost) that wouldn't have otherwise. His name wasn't removed from the nomination, but he was prevented from attending the ceremony, so had his film won, he would have not been able to share the visibility and stand on the stage with his fellow nominees.
On the Godfather issue, it's not that he borrowed from his previous compositions. It's that one of the key pieces from the film, the one that was most recognizable, was the one he lifted wholesale from previous work. Think of The Truman Show. There is some great original work in the film, but because the tunes that most people probably recognized from the film were from Koyaanisqatsi, the music branch decided it would create too much confusion were the film to be nominated and it might win based on that familiarity with pre-existing music.
drea...the films had already been nominated when the e-mail was sent. While it was a blatant attack ad, his actions didn't cause a film to be nominated (or to have lost) that wouldn't have otherwise. His name wasn't removed from the nomination, but he was prevented from attending the ceremony, so had his film won, he would have not been able to share the visibility and stand on the stage with his fellow nominees.
On the Godfather issue, it's not that he borrowed from his previous compositions. It's that one of the key pieces from the film, the one that was most recognizable, was the one he lifted wholesale from previous work. Think of The Truman Show. There is some great original work in the film, but because the tunes that most people probably recognized from the film were from Koyaanisqatsi, the music branch decided it would create too much confusion were the film to be nominated and it might win based on that familiarity with pre-existing music.
Wesley Lovell
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
Re: Academy disqualifies an Oscar-nominee!
Yes, but Ludovic Bource's orchestra didn't perform it. The song was lifted directly from Vertigo and placed into the film like any old song in a soundtrack. No credit was stolen.rolotomasi99 wrote:What about those who just lift pieces of music from other movies and yet win Oscars for Best Original Score? THE ARTIST was the one that pissed me off for using a piece of VERTIGO's brilliant (and un-nominated!) score for a crucial dramatic moment in the film.
"Men get to be a mixture of the charming mannerisms of the women they have known." - F. Scott Fitzgerald
Re: Academy disqualifies an Oscar-nominee!
It's true, and they were certainly very strict that time. Still when I saw Fortunella I had to admit that what would later become famous as the Godfather theme is basically there, with only some slight differences.rolotomasi99 wrote:This disqualification has never made sense to me. Composers "steal" from themselves all the time.FilmFan720 wrote:1972 Best Score for The Godfather: Nino Rota's nomination was rescinded when it was discovered that the Love Theme was lifted from his own score for an Italian film from the 1950s. He would win two years later for The Godfather Part II (which also contained that Love Theme).
- rolotomasi99
- Professor
- Posts: 2108
- Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2003 4:13 pm
- Location: n/a
- Contact:
Re: Academy disqualifies an Oscar-nominee!
This disqualification has never made sense to me. Composers "steal" from themselves all the time. Many of the Oscar nominated scores by John Williams steal from his other Oscar nominated scores.FilmFan720 wrote:1972 Best Score for The Godfather: Nino Rota's nomination was rescinded when it was discovered that the Love Theme was lifted from his own score for an Italian film from the 1950s. He would win two years later for The Godfather Part II (which also contained that Love Theme).
What about those who just lift pieces of music from other movies and yet win Oscars for Best Original Score? THE ARTIST was the one that pissed me off for using a piece of VERTIGO's brilliant (and un-nominated!) score for a crucial dramatic moment in the film.
Then you have Gustavo Santaolalla who won for BABEL despite just wholesale reusing bits of previous music, while also stealing from other artists.
His track titled "Amelia Desert Morning" is basically just a slowed down version of the song from JOHNNY GUITAR. The music branch sure has some bizarre rules for what counts as an "Original" score.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 6x9s#t=129
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXnPXZRD ... age#t=3310
"When it comes to the subject of torture, I trust a woman who was married to James Cameron for three years."
-- Amy Poehler in praise of Zero Dark Thirty director Kathryn Bigelow
-- Amy Poehler in praise of Zero Dark Thirty director Kathryn Bigelow