Songs (the short ones)
The concept of a best song Oscar was shaky to begin with. One can see why it was added and it certainly had a much more popular appeal then all those obscure technical awards most of the public has no interest in. Like it or not, the Oscar shows wouldn’t be the same without all those musical numbers. But when it comes to the relevance it has to film making – best song is to best score like best single outfit is to best costumes. Coming to think about it, what’s wrong with a Best Outfit Oscar of ‘54 going to the Givenchy’s dress Audrey Hepburn wore to the ball in Sabrina, accompanying Edith Head’s Oscar for the overall costume design for that movie, although some still believe the attire Grace Kelly had on when she woke James Stewart with a kiss in Rear Window was robed, robed I tell you. The impact these particular outfits have on the viewer in the context of the movies they are in is at least as affective as the use of some song as a background nose for rolling credits, but unlike that song, they can not be turned in to multi million selling hit single, which will add more money to the producers.
-
99-1100896887
-
Mike Kelly
- Temp
- Posts: 256
- Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 9:59 pm
- Location: Melbourne, FL, USA
-
99-1100896887
You can be sure that the added songs from Hairspray will figure in the nomination( think South Park's Blame Canada) if only for the film itself. Dreamgirls and Chicago both had songs nominated--unfortunately they were very minor unmemorable ones,for the most part. The better songs had of course, already been written for the Broadway version. I mean: not to get into a discussion here: but Jennifer Hudson won the Oscar for singing the hit of the show--her acting was fine, her part was the plum of the show, but it had been written and performed, some say, better, in the Broadway show.
Has an actor or actress ever won the Oscar for the role and part, and maybe the acting did no harm, but wasn't shit-hot? I am thinking Mira Sorvino, Dianne Wiest(Broadway Bound. BUT they were originally stage roles sometimes awarded Tonys already.
Has an actor or actress ever won the Oscar for the role and part, and maybe the acting did no harm, but wasn't shit-hot? I am thinking Mira Sorvino, Dianne Wiest(Broadway Bound. BUT they were originally stage roles sometimes awarded Tonys already.
-
Big Magilla
- Site Admin
- Posts: 19339
- Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 3:22 pm
- Location: Jersey Shore
Ideally the Oscar should go to the the best presentation of a song in a film, and that still happens as witness the wins for the songs from 8 Mile and Hustle & Flow, but the category is Best Song, not Best Presentation of a Song, but unfortuanelty most films these days have little use for the proper inclusion of songs.
I would rather have a song sung over the opening or closing credits than sit through a forced presentation such as the ones in The Poseidon Adventure and The Towering Inferno.
Three Coins in the Fountain and Love Is a Many-Splendored Thing are examples of good opening credit songs. They were catchy pop tunes and huge hits in their day, quite literally selling those films. Unfortunately they were the best thing about the films, odd best picture nominees that they were.
End title songs are a bit trickier. If only they could all be in a class with Springsteen's mournful coda to Philadephia, called simply Streets of Philadelphia. Most have little or nothing to do with what went on in the film.
This year, anyone? Will the new songs composed for the film version of Hairpsray dominate?
I would rather have a song sung over the opening or closing credits than sit through a forced presentation such as the ones in The Poseidon Adventure and The Towering Inferno.
Three Coins in the Fountain and Love Is a Many-Splendored Thing are examples of good opening credit songs. They were catchy pop tunes and huge hits in their day, quite literally selling those films. Unfortunately they were the best thing about the films, odd best picture nominees that they were.
End title songs are a bit trickier. If only they could all be in a class with Springsteen's mournful coda to Philadephia, called simply Streets of Philadelphia. Most have little or nothing to do with what went on in the film.
This year, anyone? Will the new songs composed for the film version of Hairpsray dominate?
-
99-1100896887
There have been horrendous songs who were nominated or ewon Oscars, of course: Never On Sunday( with lyrics) and Shaft some immediately to mind. I too lament the "song over credits" stuff.
Oh for the good old days: 1936: among those nominated: Pennies From Heaven, and I've Got you Under My Skin. The Way You Look Tonight won. Sweet Leilani( bad choice) in 1937, beat out That Old Feeling and They Can't Take That Away From Me. 1938: Thanks For the Memory(won) over Change Partners, Jeepers Creepers, and three others; 1941 saw 9 nominated songs: The Last Time I saw Paris over Blues In the Night, Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy,and Chattanooga Choo Choo. Anyone remember these?
I could go on --and over time the use of songs in film has diminished to the point, and decreased in quality, so that I don't remember the recent ones--completely blank.
Oh for the good old days: 1936: among those nominated: Pennies From Heaven, and I've Got you Under My Skin. The Way You Look Tonight won. Sweet Leilani( bad choice) in 1937, beat out That Old Feeling and They Can't Take That Away From Me. 1938: Thanks For the Memory(won) over Change Partners, Jeepers Creepers, and three others; 1941 saw 9 nominated songs: The Last Time I saw Paris over Blues In the Night, Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy,and Chattanooga Choo Choo. Anyone remember these?
I could go on --and over time the use of songs in film has diminished to the point, and decreased in quality, so that I don't remember the recent ones--completely blank.
-
Mister Tee
- Tenured Laureate
- Posts: 8648
- Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 2:57 pm
- Location: NYC
- Contact:
I actually saw You Light Up My Life AFTER it had become the most annoyingly overplayed song of 1977. Hey, it was New Years Day, my first year in NY, I had no girlfriend, my roommate and friends were all out of town, and I'd seen everything good. My memory of the movie (up on 107th and Broadway) is a bunch of kids chatting throughout the film -- except when the song arrived: at that point they shifted to church-like silence.
Mike, your mentioning the omnipresence of Tex Ritter in High Noon made me think of those kitschy movies where every time someone turns on a radio, the same damn song plays. My Foolish Heart is probably the epitome of that, but Beautiful Maria of My Soul from The Mambo Kings was a recent example.
Eric, I concur that Last Dance isn't a bad song (Evergreen, I'm more doubtful); in fact many of the winning songs are worthy in spite of the two hours containing them. I also heartily agree, Love Is a Many-Splendored Thing is s startlingly bad movie. A best picture nominee!
kaytodd and BJ both make valid points about which songs should qualify for consideration. Obviously standards have shifted over the years because styles have changed. The award was originally a bow to the dominant musical genre -- for the first 20 years or so, all the winners were sung in the bodies of the films (When You Wish Upon a Star is a borderline exception, sung over the credits -- but the film had other songs, so it still fit the general pattern). Even Mona Lisa, oddball moment that it is in Captain Carey USA, sort of fits. High Noon was the first real change -- a fully voice-over entry -- and two years later Three Coins in a Fountain inaugurated the over-the-credits tune, a format which dominated 60s nominees and winners. (Speaking of the 60s, The Shadow of Your Smile now occurs to me as an example of both questions that began this thread: a pretty short song -- though the music had been used throughout -- and a crappy movie)
Even those efforts became less prevalent in the 70s, as rock and roll totally upended Tin Pan Alley's dominance in American music. The 70s featured some of the most dire winners ever -- notably the disaster duo of '72 and '74 -- and most years you had to scratch for nominees (I'm Easy was the divine exception of the era). The 80s at least honored songs that were genuine hits (in '84, all five nominees had gone to Number One on the charts), and we started to see Oscars go to long-favored artists (Stevie Wonder, Carly Simon, Bruce Springsteen, later Dylan). But still it seemed the prize had less and less to do with the films themselves.
This changed some in the 90s, as the Disney musicals and Evita won lots of prizes for songs that were at least organically part of their films. But people got tired of that genre, too -- though some continue to get nominated.
Now we're in a sort of catch-as-catch-can period. I agree with BJ that the songs he cites at least feel like parts of their films. I have more trouble with nominees like the Crash song, which I honestly don't even remember being in the film, or the song thrown into the end credits of Chicago specifically to qualify (it wasn't even ready for the early screenings, which is where I saw the film; I never heard the song till Oscar night).
I suppose, in the end, though we prefer something that's truly part of the film, we'll all make an exception if we like the song enough.
Mike, your mentioning the omnipresence of Tex Ritter in High Noon made me think of those kitschy movies where every time someone turns on a radio, the same damn song plays. My Foolish Heart is probably the epitome of that, but Beautiful Maria of My Soul from The Mambo Kings was a recent example.
Eric, I concur that Last Dance isn't a bad song (Evergreen, I'm more doubtful); in fact many of the winning songs are worthy in spite of the two hours containing them. I also heartily agree, Love Is a Many-Splendored Thing is s startlingly bad movie. A best picture nominee!
kaytodd and BJ both make valid points about which songs should qualify for consideration. Obviously standards have shifted over the years because styles have changed. The award was originally a bow to the dominant musical genre -- for the first 20 years or so, all the winners were sung in the bodies of the films (When You Wish Upon a Star is a borderline exception, sung over the credits -- but the film had other songs, so it still fit the general pattern). Even Mona Lisa, oddball moment that it is in Captain Carey USA, sort of fits. High Noon was the first real change -- a fully voice-over entry -- and two years later Three Coins in a Fountain inaugurated the over-the-credits tune, a format which dominated 60s nominees and winners. (Speaking of the 60s, The Shadow of Your Smile now occurs to me as an example of both questions that began this thread: a pretty short song -- though the music had been used throughout -- and a crappy movie)
Even those efforts became less prevalent in the 70s, as rock and roll totally upended Tin Pan Alley's dominance in American music. The 70s featured some of the most dire winners ever -- notably the disaster duo of '72 and '74 -- and most years you had to scratch for nominees (I'm Easy was the divine exception of the era). The 80s at least honored songs that were genuine hits (in '84, all five nominees had gone to Number One on the charts), and we started to see Oscars go to long-favored artists (Stevie Wonder, Carly Simon, Bruce Springsteen, later Dylan). But still it seemed the prize had less and less to do with the films themselves.
This changed some in the 90s, as the Disney musicals and Evita won lots of prizes for songs that were at least organically part of their films. But people got tired of that genre, too -- though some continue to get nominated.
Now we're in a sort of catch-as-catch-can period. I agree with BJ that the songs he cites at least feel like parts of their films. I have more trouble with nominees like the Crash song, which I honestly don't even remember being in the film, or the song thrown into the end credits of Chicago specifically to qualify (it wasn't even ready for the early screenings, which is where I saw the film; I never heard the song till Oscar night).
I suppose, in the end, though we prefer something that's truly part of the film, we'll all make an exception if we like the song enough.
-
HarryGoldfarb
- Adjunct
- Posts: 1071
- Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2003 4:50 pm
- Location: Colombia
- Contact:
Mister Tee wrote:there wasn't much to I Just Called to Say I Love You in The Woman in Red -- most of what became the hit record (the verses) didn't show up in the movie.
Mona Lisa was only snatches, too, as I recall, and in Italian.
Big Magilla wrote:The theme from The High and the Mighty was only whistled except for a single print shown in an L.A. theatre during the qualifying period.
What a shame for A love that will never grow old... All the sudden the rules were changed, with an out of nowhere press note explaining the whole issue and putting the song as an example... In retrospective, it's easy to see what an up-hill climb was for that film since the very beginning to achieve gold...
"If you place an object in a museum, does that make this object a piece of art?" - The Square (2017)
-
FilmFan720
- Emeritus
- Posts: 3650
- Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 3:57 pm
- Location: Illinois
-
The Original BJ
- Emeritus
- Posts: 4312
- Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2003 8:49 pm
I like The Prince of Egypt. I admit I'm a bit of a sucker for animated musicals, so it's not like I would encourage everyone to rush out and rent it (hi, Damien). But as far as these things go, it's certainly much closer to the top of its genre than the bottom, thanks to the gorgeous animation and a fun score.
I actually think the "shortness" factor played a pretty big role in determining the song winner that year. "The Prayer" had a much lovelier melody (and a Globe win) in its corner, but appeared in its film only briefly near the beginning. "When You Believe," however, was a rousing eleven o'clock number, showcased for much longer in a more memorable moment. (And to bring things full circle, had "The Prayer" won, we would have a top contender for worst film to ever win this category.)
I understand the complaint people have about end credits songs; to be honest, I'd rather see more nominated songs actually featured in their films. But often a song can provide a perfect emotional button to the end of a film, and I'd argue that (among recent nominees) "Things Have Changed," "If I Didn't Have You," "Travelin' Thru" and the Lord of the Rings songs were a little more than simply tacked on to sell a soundtrack (or win trophies.)
And lastly, few Oscar omissions baffle me more than Theme from New York, New York's omission in this category.
I actually think the "shortness" factor played a pretty big role in determining the song winner that year. "The Prayer" had a much lovelier melody (and a Globe win) in its corner, but appeared in its film only briefly near the beginning. "When You Believe," however, was a rousing eleven o'clock number, showcased for much longer in a more memorable moment. (And to bring things full circle, had "The Prayer" won, we would have a top contender for worst film to ever win this category.)
I understand the complaint people have about end credits songs; to be honest, I'd rather see more nominated songs actually featured in their films. But often a song can provide a perfect emotional button to the end of a film, and I'd argue that (among recent nominees) "Things Have Changed," "If I Didn't Have You," "Travelin' Thru" and the Lord of the Rings songs were a little more than simply tacked on to sell a soundtrack (or win trophies.)
And lastly, few Oscar omissions baffle me more than Theme from New York, New York's omission in this category.
-
Mike Kelly
- Temp
- Posts: 256
- Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 9:59 pm
- Location: Melbourne, FL, USA
Tee, I too paid good money to see You Light Up My Life at the theatre (must have paid $3.50 or $4.00) and it was before the title song was in circulation. (Forgot to put the film on my list of typical films you'd see going to the movies in the 70s.) Boy was I surprised when I started hearing that thing on the radio.
"Y'know, that's one of the things I like about Mitt Romney. He's been consistent since he changed his mind." -- Christine O'Donnell
-
Big Magilla
- Site Admin
- Posts: 19339
- Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 3:22 pm
- Location: Jersey Shore
I forgot that You Light Up My Life actually won - lookinh over the competition it was actually the best of the nominated songs, though why Theme from New York, New York wasn't nominated will forever remain a mystery.
Never having seen the film all the way through, I'd have to say that Papa's Delicate Condition is still the worst of those I've actually seen, worse than White Nights and Doctor Dolittle, though maybe not as bad the Streisand version of A Starrn, Thank God It's Friday or The Woman in Red, films I've never been able to tolerate more than a few minutes of.
Prince of Egypt is another of those films I tried to watch but couldn't get into - I pretty much put it in a class with the cartoon versions of Anastasia and The King and I, making it 3 for 3 ill-conceived cartoon versions of 1956 films.
Top Gun, though, isn't so bad. Stupid, maybe, but fun within its limitations and a lot better than those other 80s cult phenomenoms - Red Dawn and Road House.
Never having seen the film all the way through, I'd have to say that Papa's Delicate Condition is still the worst of those I've actually seen, worse than White Nights and Doctor Dolittle, though maybe not as bad the Streisand version of A Starrn, Thank God It's Friday or The Woman in Red, films I've never been able to tolerate more than a few minutes of.
Prince of Egypt is another of those films I tried to watch but couldn't get into - I pretty much put it in a class with the cartoon versions of Anastasia and The King and I, making it 3 for 3 ill-conceived cartoon versions of 1956 films.
Top Gun, though, isn't so bad. Stupid, maybe, but fun within its limitations and a lot better than those other 80s cult phenomenoms - Red Dawn and Road House.