I finally watched the first season of this a couple of months back. My only real problem is the fact that it's yet another show trying to pass off Los Angeles as New York, and it's fairly obvious to me when they're outside of some of the key locations (like the club and the office).
I hate that I've fallen behind on season two, but after seeing season one in full HD on Blu-Ray, I'm not sure that I want to see season two in regular old standard definition given how great season one looked, and how important the overall look was to the show. But if AMC does a marathon, I may watch anyway.
the man from Maytag referring to his daughter's "stories" rather than "shows" or "soap operas."
I've heard my 83 year-old grandmother use that term to talk about soap operas on several occasions. Of course I've also heard her talk about going into town to do her "trading".
I just caught this past week's episode tonight. God, it was depressing, lol. That must have been the most mirthless dinner party Westchester County saw all year.
This was January Jones's finest hour so far.
I think that Colin Hanks's priest is much more complex than being simply either a cool young priest or a morally judgmental and paternalistic figure. I think he clearly wants to be progressive but his (presumably) working class background still saddles him with conservative values, and plus there's whatever he's feeling for Peggy as a man -- and there's clearly some sense of prurient interest and titillation in his wanting to delve into her private life and her "sin."
My favorite throwaway line -- the man from Maytag referring to his daughter's "stories" rather than "shows" or "soap operas." I can remember around that time my Mom complaining that she's be on the phone with a friend and the friend would have to hang up because her "story was starting."
"Y'know, that's one of the things I like about Mitt Romney. He's been consistent since he changed his mind." -- Christine O'Donnell
I just read at Salon that there will be no new episode this week -- because the Mad Men crew hope to be visible at the Emmys, airing at the same time.
This resolves a massive dilemma for me, as I was uncertain how to divide my time among Mad Men, the Emmys, and the last-ever game at the old Yankee stadium Sunday night.
I'm not reading this thread and probably don't know if it's been posted, but Mad Men apparently won 4 Emmys at the Creative Arts awards this past Sunday.
Wesley Lovell
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
Mister Tee wrote:I really wanted her to resist the priest in that final scene; it seemed so intrusive of him to use illicitly-obtained information that way.
I also thought it was incredibly inappropriate for him to want her to spill her guts AT WORK. I'm glad that she brushed his intrusive questions aside and showed him to the door with flyers for his lame dance.
Joan's storyline this week was so sad. Cristina Hendricks' delivery in that final set of lines was absolutely brilliant. She perfectly captured the teetering heartbreak and disappointment with the need to still maintain her "Joan-ness" to the new person in the office. We've always been led to believe that Joan doesn't envy Peggy for her advancement in the office, that she's happy with the power she seems to have with the men and women alike in her role as office manager. And I still believe that's true. I think, though, having a taste of something more meaningful like reading the scripts meant that it was especially hard to give it up to someone clearly less deserving. At least she has a hot fiancee to come home to at night. (Too bad, Penelope's not checking into this thread. Even though it's before his time, he might've been able to shed some light on who was coming back from the dead on As the World Turns!)
The Draper storyline hits very close to home for me. My grandmother, with five boys in the 60's including my dad and his twin, lived a similarly privileged life, aloof and baking until she was confronted with her husband's adultery and then sank into a deep depression, banning my grandfather from coming home. January Jones hit it out of the ballpark in this episode, capturing the desperation and the absolute stasis this kind of revelation can engender in a previously normally-functioning human being. I agree with Tee that Don's bold-faced denial of the affair just makes him look like a weak pathological liar and generally not a good person at all.
Season two is fantastic.
Edited By flipp525 on 1221664241
"The mantle of spinsterhood was definitely in her shoulders. She was twenty five and looked it."
I thought it was another extremely strong episode. Nascent feminism was the unifying thread, but the show did a great job of keeping it at the precise level 1962 would have allowed, and yet not showing smug 20/20 hindsight. Harry's treatment of Joan is pitched at just the right level. It's not that he shows contempt for her (a woman's) ability -- it's that it never occurs to him she might take any satisfaction in her work the way he or his mates would. As far as he's concerned, it was something she did in her spare time. The fact that the guy replacing her won't have half her insight -- or that the clients might miss meeting with the hot babe -- doesn't seem to cross his mind.
Peggy's story-line was equally maddening. Here she's buffaloed into donating her time, and everyone feels free to trash her work. (Oh, and for those unfamilar with Catholic cliches -- "Leave room for the Holy Ghost" was a nun's staple) I really wanted her to resist the priest in that final scene; it seemed so intrusive of him to use illicitly-obtained information that way. Based on the final scene, though, I wonder if I was judging him too quickly. He seems meant to be representative of the 60s-version, more liberated priest (as my mother to this day says, "You'd like him -- he's a YOUNG priest"), and perhaps is sincere about wanting to offer religious comfort rather than judgment, because he senses Peggy needs it.
But the best stuff came courtesy of the Drapers. That Betty was on the edge was clear from that hack-the-chair-to-pieces scene (which brought back the almost-forgotten shotgun moment from Season One). It's typically of the show's indirection to have made the Heineken moment the ultimate trigger for her rebellion -- mainly because I think any creative person using elements from his/her own life is standard, and not a hanging offense. But for Betty it focused all her building resentment and caused it to erupt (much the way Carmela's did in that one famous Sopranos' season finale). The shot of her sitting at breakfast still in her dress from the night before was deeply spooky.
I understand Don's need to deny the charges; I don't think he thinks the marriage can survive if he DOES own up to it, and, as I believe he truthfully says, he doesn't want to lose his marriage and his kids. But his right-in-the-eye denial pushes him into a sort of pathological-liar, lost-soul state.
One small disappointment from the episode: given all the hints about Duck's need to avoid alcohol, I expected some sort of fallout from his social drinking at dinner.
I've been too occupied to post on this, but I wanted to join the chorus of praise for the best episode of the season. It covered alot of ground, but seemed all of a piece. Someone said over at Salon, Cosgrove's story metaphor of the beautiful violin that didn't play music fit nearly all that went on: Sal's seemingly placid but sham marriage, the Rothko whose art few appreciate, Jimmy's getting "all he ever wanted" at the expense of his self-respect, the pastoral picnic leaving massive litter behind, and Don Draper the walking Cadillac who's a mess inside (same as his literal Cadillac, in the final shot).
The Sal/Kitty/Cosgrove dinner was painful too watch -- I was dreading Sal doing something so obvious it would be excruciating. Does Ken rush out of there because he picks up on Sal's barely contained yearning? Or, having covered his subject of interest -- his story -- does he simply have no further use for them? And how much does Kitty sense the real impediment between her and Sal? (It's touching, how sorry he is to have upset her, and his zeal to make it up to her, when we know the one way he can't is the only way that matters to her)
flipp, I'm sorry to say littering on that scale wasn't out of the norm in those days. Lady Bird Johnson shortly afterward began her campaign to Beautify Our Highways specifically because of things like this. With incidents like this -- and last season's cleaners' bag -- the show really illustrates how social mores have changed.
The Joan/Jane thing is fascinating. Joan clearly thinks Jane must be trading sexual favors for her backing from Roger. Does Roger think the same? Does Jane? And is Jane more or less manipulative than Joan? My wife says more, because Joan genuinely seemed to care for Roger, where Jane simply went in with that troubled-little-girl/take-care-of-me look and got what she wanted.
Exchange of the night: "You people" "You mean, us comedians?"
I'm fascinated to see what further we get of the mystery woman in Don's past.
Damien wrote:The song that opened the show also seemed anachronistic. I don't know what it was, but it sounded much more like something you'd hear on FM in 1968/69 FM than in 1962.
The song was "The Infanta" by the Decemberists, none of whose members were alive in 1962. I felt it was a lazy addition to a show that has stayed so true to its time era, though that sequence of the ladies zipping up their dresses was lifted almost wholesale from the first episode of this new season. Symmetry? A need to fill 25 seconds of airtime?
Fantastic episode last night, though I still hope they might show the development of Sal into a (completely conflicted) married man in a future episode.
Before I post any thoughts on this very fine episode, I thought I’d mention the scene that had my jaw-dropping almost the entire time: the Draper family picnic. I couldn’t believe that Betty lifted up the blanket, shook all the trash onto the ground and then happily got back into the new family car. I realize it was a different time period, but I just couldn’t believe they were so carelessly littering. It was gross! I mean, did people honestly think that the world was their own personal trashcan? And, I thought for sure Bobby Draper was going to get run over during that picnic.
And was anyone really all that surprised that Jimmy knew about Don and Bobbie all along? That tell-off was richly deserved, no matter how much of a wiseass that guy is. I believe that this will be the trigger which releases Butterfield 8 Betty.
I agree with Damien that the character of Jane is all-around fabulous. I’m glad she’s sticking around as well. She should probably realize sooner rather than later though that she’ll have to pay Roger for getting her job back. I just had lunch on Jane Street this past Sunday!
Sal has a little crush on Ken Cosgrove…does he actually think that Ken might swing that way or is he just enjoying a small, delightful flirtation? I felt sorry for Kitty. From Sal’s description, it seems that Sal’s mother knew exactly what was what and brought Kitty along as wife material for her gay son.
I’m sort of over Duck. I don’t like the actor and the character seems to be going nowhere fast. What is the point of him now that Cooper is interested in sending Don out as the poster boy for Sterling Cooper to drum up more business?
Edited By flipp525 on 1221159053
"The mantle of spinsterhood was definitely in her shoulders. She was twenty five and looked it."
I thought tonight's episode was near perfect. The only flaw was the somewhat heavy-handed approach of the Sal-Kitty-Ken dynamic. But the interplay between Sal and Kitty after Ken left worked well. (And I loved how the show perfectly captured the oblivious racism of the time when Ken told Sal he was hesistant to call Kitty to thank her for dinner because he didn't how express appreciation for hospitality with Italians.)
I think the character of Jane is wonderful, and I was so disappointed when she was fired and would be leaving the show, and then elated that she got to stay. There's a lot of nuance to this character, who's smart but cagey enough to know when to play dumb. I used to know a woman very much like her, and funnily enough she too lived on Jane Street.
Mark Rothko is my favorite artist, so i was crazy about his invlovement with the episode, and the reactions to the painting were perfect (although by 1962, Rothko was long well-established). With the presence of the Smith Bros. and the SDS references, tonight's episode had a palpable sense of that a change was gonna come, and Dan's purchase of a Cadillac was a perfect counterpoint to that.
Oh, and Jimmy was a lot more interesting tonight than he had been.
"Y'know, that's one of the things I like about Mitt Romney. He's been consistent since he changed his mind." -- Christine O'Donnell
Mister Tee wrote:I have to admit there were things that didn't sit well with me in this episode. I can't imagine any midtown office allowing a dog to roam free in its halls in 1962. A Funny Thing Happened... doesn't seem the sort of show most parents would have taken youngish children to see, given its bawdy reputation back then. (And, considering the show had just opened, in May -- had to Google that -- the whole "We've seen it already" thing seemed dubious. And, like Damien, I had some problem with where Don's headed -- it seems more self-destructive than prior.
Good points, Tee. Funny Thing seems so innocent today that one forgets that back in the day it was considered risque. How To Succeed In Business which opened in October of '61 would probably have been a better show to have referenced. And, of course, it would have had the Robert Morse connection -- someone was lying down on the job.
The use of Marilyn Monroe as a touchstone seens to be a case of employing retroactive iconography. Although Marilyn was still a big star in 1962, she was somewhat past her peak -- the last time she was on the Exhibitors' Poll of Top 10 Box-Office Attractions was 1956. Looking at these polls, I was fascinated to see that the same three women were the only actresses on the list in 1961, 1962 and 1963: Doris Day, Eliizabeth Taylor and Sandra Dee (our collective memory forgets what a big star Dee was -- I, frankly was shocked to see that she was THIS big). And the same trio were also on the list in 1960, joined that year by Debbie Reynolds making the second of her 2 appearances. Liz (or even Kim Novak oreven Brigitte Brdot) seems to be a more natural counterpoint to Jackie in the bra ads for contemporary verisimiltude.
The song that opened the show also seemed anachronistic. I don't know what it was, but it sounded much more like something you'd hear on FM in 1968/69 FM than in 1962.
Duck putting that dog on the street broke my heart (and I'm a cat person).
By the way, ELisabeth Moss is going to be appearing on Broadway in a revival of David Mamet's Speed-The-Plow (with Jeremy Piven and Raul Esparza) in the role originally played by a woman referenced by Mike Huckabee this week at the convention, Madonna.
Edited By Damien on 1220761462
"Y'know, that's one of the things I like about Mitt Romney. He's been consistent since he changed his mind." -- Christine O'Donnell
I have to admit there were things that didn't sit well with me in this episode. I can't imagine any midtown office allowing a dog to roam free in its halls in 1962. A Funny Thing Happened... doesn't seem the sort of show most parents would have taken youngish children to see, given its bawdy reputation back then. (And, considering the show had just opened, in May -- had to Google that -- the whole "We've seen it already" thing seemed dubious. And, like Damien, I had some problem with where Don's headed -- it seems more self-destructive than prior.
Interesting things? Pete Campbell, esp. vis a vis Peggy. (During the Liberty Valance discussion, I actually had to remind myself they'd been lovers -- the co-worker/competition dynamic was so strong, it overwhelmed the earlier one) And Peggy trying to make her way in the male world. Of course it's necessary for her to show she's one-of-the-guys, but the way she has to stand there in the face of near-blatant sexual harassment (being asked what bra she wore was hugely invasive by standards of the era) recalls how Jackie Robinson was instructed to respond to nothing for his first season.
The Jackie/Marilyn dichotomy was an interesting, time-specific look into the Madonna/whore split, with reverb because we know 1) Marilyn was only a few months from death and 2) Jack was doing both of them (Were any of our characters aware of this? I never heard it back then -- but of course I was 10). And then of course Don enacted it for us in living color with his near-violent reaction against Betty in bikini.
Duck has been something of a a villainous presence for some time, and I guess we got some sympathy for him over his treatment by his family. But nothing he'd done before made me despise him like his tossing the dog into the street.
Damien wrote:I'm not thrilled about how nasty Don is becoming -- a lot of his nuances are being removed and he's no longer all that interesting. And come on, someone in his position would not be so cavalier about taking so many afternons off. When he did it once to watch a foreign film, that was intriguing, When he does it on a regular basis for sex, that's both unbelievable and banal.
Right now the show is most interesting when it focuses on Peggy and Campbell. (Loved Peggy's appearance at the girly bar at the end of this week's show.)
It looks to me like they are setting up parallel stories of the developments of Don and Peggy, albeit in a rather heavy-handed way. Don was appalled when he found out women were talking to each other about the "Don Draper treatment." The mirror images of Don at the end after his conversation with his daughter was also heavy handed but it made the obvious point about how Don is striving for respectability and being known as a family/business man while being unable to resist his desires. Hardly an original story but this show is so well acted by John Hamm and the rest of the cast that I am buying all of it.
After her conversation with Joan, Peggy believes she has the opposite problem from Don. That was a startling physical transformation and I can tell she was uncomfortable creating that sexy image in front of her colleagues, especially Pete. I am rooting for her to find a middle ground between dressing like a "little girl" (Joan's description) and a tramp. She has shown that she has the personality and strength to present herself as a powerful person in the office. Once she gets the appearance down she will be a formidable figure at Sterling Cooper, especially since Pete is playing with fire (like a callow youth first discovering sex), Roger Sterling doesn't seem to be working too hard, and Bert Cooper may soon not be able to do much work.
Edited By kaytodd on 1220370185
The great thing in the world is not so much where we stand, as in what direction we are moving. It's faith in something and enthusiasm for something that makes a life worth living. Oliver Wendell Holmes
I'm not thrilled about how nasty Don is becoming -- a lot of his nuances are being removed and he's no longer all that interesting. And come on, someone in his position would not be so cavalier about taking so many afternons off. When he did it once to watch a foreign film, that was intriguing, When he does it on a regular basis for sex, that's both unbelievable and banal.
Right now the show is most interesting when it focuses on Peggy and Campbell. (Loved Peggy's appearance at the girly bar at the end of this week's show.)
Edited By Damien on 1220343104
"Y'know, that's one of the things I like about Mitt Romney. He's been consistent since he changed his mind." -- Christine O'Donnell
Too bad you missed the Season 2 marathon they did last night leading up to the latest episode, although I'm sure AMC will do another one before the season ends.
Six of the best hours of my year so far! I'm glad such an understated and complex shows can become a hit with viewers.
