...please tell me this was not about soap operas GROW UP!!! Are we really going to kick people off the Board because of fucking soap operas GROW UP!!! This is not directed at anybody who I am sure finds soap operas quite enjoyable. I have never watched one. I will never watch them. I am sure the whole institution is on par with sliced bread and two hydrogen molecules gangbanging an oxygen, but soap operas GROW UP!!! OH MY GOD, SOAP OPERAS!!!
Just waiting for confirmation if this is indeed about a conversation about soap operas.
Edited By Sabin on 1202833689
Grievances Aired
I feel lost. I am not entirely sure what has transpired and I am sure it is quite important, it sure sounds like it is...but...
Unless I am mistaken, this is still a message board. By which I mean we are here to discuss the Academy Awards and other things. By which I mean by nature the cattiest people on the internet meet to discuss films and whatever other catty points of interest come to mind. By which I mean... (forgive me, the question mark button on the internet kiosk seems non-existent so instead of a question mark I will just type GROW UP!) ...is it not the forum for cattiness and zingers GROW UP! I mean, I certainly enjoy this board and do not wish it to close down. I ask politely, with whatever transpired does it really warrant shutting the Board down GROW UP! Or even discussion of such an act GROW UP!
Again, I am terribly sorry because I do not know exactly what is being debated but quite frankly I enjoy all the dynamics present. I think this has become quite a fine place to show up, discuss films, politics, soap operas if you will. Wes, must it really come down to threatening to close the Board down GROW UP!
Again, I do not know what is being discussed but is there not a more mature, tolerant way of handling intolerance in this day and age without threats of taking your ball and walking away GROW UP!!!
Unless I am mistaken, this is still a message board. By which I mean we are here to discuss the Academy Awards and other things. By which I mean by nature the cattiest people on the internet meet to discuss films and whatever other catty points of interest come to mind. By which I mean... (forgive me, the question mark button on the internet kiosk seems non-existent so instead of a question mark I will just type GROW UP!) ...is it not the forum for cattiness and zingers GROW UP! I mean, I certainly enjoy this board and do not wish it to close down. I ask politely, with whatever transpired does it really warrant shutting the Board down GROW UP! Or even discussion of such an act GROW UP!
Again, I am terribly sorry because I do not know exactly what is being debated but quite frankly I enjoy all the dynamics present. I think this has become quite a fine place to show up, discuss films, politics, soap operas if you will. Wes, must it really come down to threatening to close the Board down GROW UP!
Again, I do not know what is being discussed but is there not a more mature, tolerant way of handling intolerance in this day and age without threats of taking your ball and walking away GROW UP!!!
"How's the despair?"
I've been to a few forums/message boards, not many, but it was my understanding that they were, in general, hostile. There were those who would take offense to vague and minor attack but over time would evolve to accept their attackers were just assholes, especially if they act in this manner with every single member on the board. Then there are those who should be offended, the attack on them was meant to hurt and not because the antagonist woke up on the wrong side of the bed. You say your piece, you have a good argument for a few pages of off-topic soap, and you walk away from the computer to analyze what the hell just happened. Did you say something to make this person so irate with you? If so, maybe you should apologize. Did you do nothing at all to deserve what just happened? Go to the board the following day and continue posting as if nothing ever happened. You know shit hit the fan the day before, and maybe your hurt, but you don't always have to show your soft spots for easy target practice.
One thing I've never seen on the internet - but let me tell you, too many times have I seen this kind of embarrassing ordeal in social circles - is drama such as the kind that goes on in this board. It could be a variety of things: personal problems off the board, you're constantly misunderstood, .... or raging hormones. It seems too much personality is invested in this board. Now, personality is a good thing, but things must be taken in moderation. If I followed my personality down to the last card you would see asinine posts and absolutely odd dictation spurting from my mouth. But I don't do that, it would surely annoy the hell out of the members and some may even plan to kill me in my sleep.
But I digress.
I find it easier to just go with it. Play along with those pricks that hurt you:
GUY1: You're such an dick.
OTHERGUY: Oh, stop having fantasies during a serious conversation you perv. :;):
GUY1: Um... uh.... what?
Yea, it's a little immature, but it works.
One thing I've never seen on the internet - but let me tell you, too many times have I seen this kind of embarrassing ordeal in social circles - is drama such as the kind that goes on in this board. It could be a variety of things: personal problems off the board, you're constantly misunderstood, .... or raging hormones. It seems too much personality is invested in this board. Now, personality is a good thing, but things must be taken in moderation. If I followed my personality down to the last card you would see asinine posts and absolutely odd dictation spurting from my mouth. But I don't do that, it would surely annoy the hell out of the members and some may even plan to kill me in my sleep.
But I digress.
I find it easier to just go with it. Play along with those pricks that hurt you:
GUY1: You're such an dick.
OTHERGUY: Oh, stop having fantasies during a serious conversation you perv. :;):
GUY1: Um... uh.... what?
Yea, it's a little immature, but it works.
"It's the least most of us can do, but less of us will do more."
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OscarGuy
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No one was banned, Uri. If Italiano can't log in, that's his problem. Nothing has been changed or altered. Cam was even having problems logging in the other day, but it had nothing to do with anyone being banned.
The discussion that was had, Uri, was NOT public. It was private. It was like the board of a company having a meeting to discuss a situation that has arisen. The individuals were not involved so as to provide an HONEST forum for issues that people were having. Had it become necessary, it could have been opened to those individuals. However, it didn't become necessary, so the discussion was properly ended and we all moved on. Matter of fact, the entire board had gone back to normal.
That is until you decided to stir the pot and take private information public. I'm fine with friends letting friends know what's going on, but all that creates is hostility. And you know what, your one little altruistic act led to this. You can think anything you want, but as you have admitted, you stirred the pot, creating the more hostile environment.
Everything was fine and moving back to normal. Those who were upset had calmed down because they had had a chance to discuss the matter with people who had not gotten upset and were more calm and rational than they at the time.
So telling them eased your conscience. Good for you. But just realize this thread is your fault, not anyone else's. I had to post something publicly because otherwise Italiano would have continued to hijack Penelope's thread (partly because for some unfathomable reason, he though Pen was behind the whole matter when he was not) and make an issue of the whole thing. All that will do, and you should know this from past experience, Uri, is drive those who were most frustrated away again.
And, Eric, you won't be a part of any solution because nowhere in this post did I suggest banning anyone. I asked people privately what should be done. The suggestions that were brought to me included banning. I was trying to state the cases being made, not suggest which should be followed. And when I made my decision to talk with those individuals privately, I told everyone. But for some reason, you seem to think that this was some attempt to get that option back on the table. As you have been frequently in the recent past, you are wrong.
Magilla is right. Banning was never an option in my mind. I only wanted to allow people a chance to air their feelings about the situation and get a better idea of where everyone on the board was in their thought processes. In this original post, I even stated that the situation had been handled incorrectly, but still people think they should be attacking me for that initial mishandling.
If you want to instigate trouble, move on. I don't want to deal with it anymore. If you can't behave more civilly, move on. I don't want to deal with that anymore either. If we're going to have a successful community here, EVERYONE needs to get over themselves and their personal moral superiority. I've been trying, but it's very hard when people betray my trust and attempt to drive wedges through the board's membership.
So, complain that you think I need to grow up all you want, but I think I've been more than reasonable and more than fair in this entire situation. I've made personal responses in PM or by e-mail to people with concerns and attempted to handle this quietly and civilly. I will continue to do that, but I want everyone to realize that the board exists at my behest.
I'm at my wit's end right now. I've gotten everything else in my life under control. I'm working on getting my finances in order. I've got a good job, am part of a good organization and finally feel I'm providing a positive and contributory presence on the web. However, when I come to this board and see the petty bickering, the petty name calling and the betrayals when I'm trying to make a more positive impact on my life and on this board, it makes me very sad.
t makes me want to hang it all up. It may be a temporary emotion, but I was so frustrated last night, I wanted to cry. This has been emotionally draining and I'm tired of having to defend myself or others in matters that should be handled like adults. We all have our moments, some more than others, but this forum has turned against everything that I had hoped it would become. You can claim you're doing something for a noble purpose, but all you're doing is generating the hostile environment that's causing all the frustration.
My initial plea was for everyone to take a look at how they have contributed to the failures of the board, learn from them and move on, but my own altruism is betrayed yet again. When I see some of these responses, the only emotion I can feel is sadness and disappointment. I attempt to make heartfelt statements about the collapse of the board and those sentiments are returned with hateful, juvenile admonishments and negative commentary. I applaud those who attempted to make this discourse civil. I guess I shouldn't have expected more. All of my hopes that we could reach an amicable resolution fade with every new post that goes up.
I can't step back. This is the most important season of the year. I have to be there to contribute because that's the only FUN part of this board for me. Stepping back is not an option right now. I was just hoping EVERYONE could be a part of the solution, but I'm starting to believe that may be impossible.
The discussion that was had, Uri, was NOT public. It was private. It was like the board of a company having a meeting to discuss a situation that has arisen. The individuals were not involved so as to provide an HONEST forum for issues that people were having. Had it become necessary, it could have been opened to those individuals. However, it didn't become necessary, so the discussion was properly ended and we all moved on. Matter of fact, the entire board had gone back to normal.
That is until you decided to stir the pot and take private information public. I'm fine with friends letting friends know what's going on, but all that creates is hostility. And you know what, your one little altruistic act led to this. You can think anything you want, but as you have admitted, you stirred the pot, creating the more hostile environment.
Everything was fine and moving back to normal. Those who were upset had calmed down because they had had a chance to discuss the matter with people who had not gotten upset and were more calm and rational than they at the time.
So telling them eased your conscience. Good for you. But just realize this thread is your fault, not anyone else's. I had to post something publicly because otherwise Italiano would have continued to hijack Penelope's thread (partly because for some unfathomable reason, he though Pen was behind the whole matter when he was not) and make an issue of the whole thing. All that will do, and you should know this from past experience, Uri, is drive those who were most frustrated away again.
And, Eric, you won't be a part of any solution because nowhere in this post did I suggest banning anyone. I asked people privately what should be done. The suggestions that were brought to me included banning. I was trying to state the cases being made, not suggest which should be followed. And when I made my decision to talk with those individuals privately, I told everyone. But for some reason, you seem to think that this was some attempt to get that option back on the table. As you have been frequently in the recent past, you are wrong.
Magilla is right. Banning was never an option in my mind. I only wanted to allow people a chance to air their feelings about the situation and get a better idea of where everyone on the board was in their thought processes. In this original post, I even stated that the situation had been handled incorrectly, but still people think they should be attacking me for that initial mishandling.
If you want to instigate trouble, move on. I don't want to deal with it anymore. If you can't behave more civilly, move on. I don't want to deal with that anymore either. If we're going to have a successful community here, EVERYONE needs to get over themselves and their personal moral superiority. I've been trying, but it's very hard when people betray my trust and attempt to drive wedges through the board's membership.
So, complain that you think I need to grow up all you want, but I think I've been more than reasonable and more than fair in this entire situation. I've made personal responses in PM or by e-mail to people with concerns and attempted to handle this quietly and civilly. I will continue to do that, but I want everyone to realize that the board exists at my behest.
I'm at my wit's end right now. I've gotten everything else in my life under control. I'm working on getting my finances in order. I've got a good job, am part of a good organization and finally feel I'm providing a positive and contributory presence on the web. However, when I come to this board and see the petty bickering, the petty name calling and the betrayals when I'm trying to make a more positive impact on my life and on this board, it makes me very sad.
t makes me want to hang it all up. It may be a temporary emotion, but I was so frustrated last night, I wanted to cry. This has been emotionally draining and I'm tired of having to defend myself or others in matters that should be handled like adults. We all have our moments, some more than others, but this forum has turned against everything that I had hoped it would become. You can claim you're doing something for a noble purpose, but all you're doing is generating the hostile environment that's causing all the frustration.
My initial plea was for everyone to take a look at how they have contributed to the failures of the board, learn from them and move on, but my own altruism is betrayed yet again. When I see some of these responses, the only emotion I can feel is sadness and disappointment. I attempt to make heartfelt statements about the collapse of the board and those sentiments are returned with hateful, juvenile admonishments and negative commentary. I applaud those who attempted to make this discourse civil. I guess I shouldn't have expected more. All of my hopes that we could reach an amicable resolution fade with every new post that goes up.
I can't step back. This is the most important season of the year. I have to be there to contribute because that's the only FUN part of this board for me. Stepping back is not an option right now. I was just hoping EVERYONE could be a part of the solution, but I'm starting to believe that may be impossible.
Wesley Lovell
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
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Sonic Youth
- Tenured Laureate
- Posts: 8005
- Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 8:35 pm
- Location: USA
OscarGuy wrote:However, there is significantly more fault to be had over the issue. I deleted the topic to avoid hurt feelings and protect those who had provided honest feedback. One individual decided to inform the debated individuals that a discussion had taken place. Doing so is far more unconscionable than anything I or other had done. They allowed something private to become public in a self-centered desire to appear cool and "above" the situation. In reality, this individual only caused significant hurt feelings, drive away members and cause a great amount of stress and tension during a time when we should be celebrating film.
Remember that scene in Singin' in the Rain, when Jean Hagen congratulates Rita Moreno for being a good pal for telling her about her nemesis promotion?
I'm the Zelda Zanders here, and I'm sure many here would just love to associate my friend with many of Lina Lamont's characteristics.
Seriously, all that little girls' (and boys') stuff, all those intrigues and cliques forming and secretive meeting places – to quote better people than I – grow up. I saw the title of this thread and I came in prepared to learn someone here had just lost a beloved family member or, even worse, a pet, only to find, again, hyper dramatic, self indulged moaning. Really. So people call other people idiots. Big deal. This is not an academic forum, or a church gathering, or a support group – it's a lively, stimulating and energetic place for knowledgeable, opinionated and passionate people to express themselves, or so it should be. And, as the good old Bolshevik phrase goes, when wood is chopped, chips fly. Polite, forced self restriction is much more destructive for this board than occasional heated words and even some blunt, unapologetic, honest rudeness. Ok, I know, it requires a sense of humor, some self awareness and a relatively minimal amount of self confidence, but I'm sure all of the people here have it in themselves to be able to deal with it.
Happy Oscar season, guys.
Edited By Uri on 1202800100
That is sincerely wished on my part, but a lot of people here are easily hot under the callar, and the provoking, in particular one case, had not been seen to the degree of nastiness as has been here before. So I maintain thatSonic Youth wrote: If the poster in question makes a habit of being a witless asshole, then the entire board will pay them no mind or eventually their bad disposition will get the better of them and they'll self-destruct.
they have not been ignored, and I have not seen you, Sonic, ever, be uninvolved, just like the rest of us who are just as bad.
And it is galling to me, and must be also to other readers or visitors to the site to start out reading in one thread, which changes tack, and the whole converation gets warped by some internecine hissy catfight.
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Sonic Youth
- Tenured Laureate
- Posts: 8005
- Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 8:35 pm
- Location: USA
Big Magilla wrote:No one was in favor of a ban without warning, and the consensus was that there shouldn't be a ban at all. So here we are having this discussion becasue one ididvidual won't let well enough alone.
Two people. Oscar Guy, I'm lookin' at you.
My keyboard is dying, so I'll keep this brief. I don't go along withEric's brashness,but I must agree he has a point. I've been saying, if you feel baited and provoked by a poster, just IGNORE them! Easier said than done? Do it moreoften, and it'll get easier. If the poster in question makes a habit of being a witless asshole, then the entire board will pay them no mind or eventually their bad disposition will get the better of them and they'll self-destruct. I'm not 100% against banning. Ifsomeone comes on and spams the board with advertising links or cheerleading fan sites, they ain't worth the bandwidth. And on a very few occassions, some unhappy perso joined theboard with the intention of not contributing anything other than insults and abuse to everyone. No reason tokeep them around. But most people we have "grivances" with ARE otherwise valuable contributors. And if they don't seem so to you, they are to some others, as difficult as it may be tofathom.
(My SPACE key is breaking. Excuse me.)
What does this have to do with Oscar Guy? He could take a little of that advice. OG, you being the board leader, I understand you're in the middle of this, and it's a shitty position to be in. But you've already declared you're not banning anyone. So, before you get exasperated and threaten to shut the board down, maybe you should take a few steps back for a bit. I know you can't totally ignorecomplaints, and you shouldn't. But maybe this is the time to leave them alone, say "I've done what I can, let's just wait for a bit", and see what happens for the next few weeks. Oscars are coming up. Your fun shouldn't be ruined. And this is what you should be telling everyone. If one or two posters are ruining things for the many, then the many should talk amongst themselves and ostracize the few if they're not worth the trouble. We're notobligated to talk to everyone. It may sound callous since real feelings are clearly hurting, but since you're not in the banning business, what other options are left?
In other words, this thread is taking something that's already gone toofar much further than it needs to be. The board has gone through a lot, and with a little time it will regain equilibrium once again.
Edited By Sonic Youth on 1202792585
"What the hell?"
Win Butler
Win Butler
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Big Magilla
- Site Admin
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- Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 3:22 pm
- Location: Jersey Shore
Well it shouldn't matter now, Big Magilla. As long as no one was banned, right?
Why don't you all just try ignoring someone if you don't like what they have to say? I'm not trying to be cheeky, honestly I'm not. This is a sincere suggestion, offered without malice (so please, don't hold a secret meeting about ME! I kid, I kid!)
I had to do this with a couple of people whose annoying responses to my posts (one after the other, as if stalking me from thread to thread) had worn me out completely. Once I decided to ignore them, it was all fine and dandy. And you guys never heard a peep from me about it. They only have power if you give it to them.
Edited By Akash on 1202791902
Why don't you all just try ignoring someone if you don't like what they have to say? I'm not trying to be cheeky, honestly I'm not. This is a sincere suggestion, offered without malice (so please, don't hold a secret meeting about ME! I kid, I kid!)
I had to do this with a couple of people whose annoying responses to my posts (one after the other, as if stalking me from thread to thread) had worn me out completely. Once I decided to ignore them, it was all fine and dandy. And you guys never heard a peep from me about it. They only have power if you give it to them.
Edited By Akash on 1202791902
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Big Magilla
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Eric, you're being unfair. I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I think your threat to walk if anyone was banned was what led Wes to decide against it.Eric wrote:OscarGuy wrote:You are as much a part of the problem as you are a part of the solution.
I have no intention of being part of the solution if it includes banning people. I have every intention of being part of the exodus, though.
So what is the solution? I don't want to see anyone banned either. I feel like I've lost a family member every time someone walks or has been banned in the past, but what should we do, keep ignoring attacks in the hope that the agressor will eventually get tired of the game and stop?
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Big Magilla
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This has been a strange Oscar season. The writers' strike has taken the fun out or it, but the striek is over. The presenters will be announced on Wednesday. Mayne then we can gtet back to tossign brickbats at celebrities instead of each other.
I don't know who leaked the information about the private thread to the individuals under discussion and I don't want to know. It was in a forum open to anyone who had been a member of the UAADB for two years or more with the exception of one person. It wasn't exactly a secret.
No one was in favor of a ban without warning, and the consensus was that there shouldn't be a ban at all. So here we are having this discussion becasue one ididvidual won't let well enough alone.
I voiced my concerns about the direction the board was taking in the Happy New Year thread. Some agreed with me, but more disagreed. I was concerned about the almost constant use of street language and sex talk, perhaps too much so, but I was also concerned with the constant putting down of one another, and that I will never understand.
Name calling, the use of words like "coward" and "idiot" and threats to send the men in the white coats to someone's house have no place in any civil discourse, certainly not in this place which is to many of us, our second home.
I felt very low after being personally attacked a few days before the inappropriate attack on Penelope, and was ready to throw in the towell myself, but I'll be damned if I'm going to let one individual with a bug up his ass drive me from my second home.
I don't know who leaked the information about the private thread to the individuals under discussion and I don't want to know. It was in a forum open to anyone who had been a member of the UAADB for two years or more with the exception of one person. It wasn't exactly a secret.
No one was in favor of a ban without warning, and the consensus was that there shouldn't be a ban at all. So here we are having this discussion becasue one ididvidual won't let well enough alone.
I voiced my concerns about the direction the board was taking in the Happy New Year thread. Some agreed with me, but more disagreed. I was concerned about the almost constant use of street language and sex talk, perhaps too much so, but I was also concerned with the constant putting down of one another, and that I will never understand.
Name calling, the use of words like "coward" and "idiot" and threats to send the men in the white coats to someone's house have no place in any civil discourse, certainly not in this place which is to many of us, our second home.
I felt very low after being personally attacked a few days before the inappropriate attack on Penelope, and was ready to throw in the towell myself, but I'll be damned if I'm going to let one individual with a bug up his ass drive me from my second home.
