The Religion Debate

criddic3
Tenured
Posts: 2875
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2003 11:08 pm
Location: New York, USA
Contact:

Post by criddic3 »

There is something completely wrong not only - of course - in Jennifer Hudson's and other Americans' expression of their religious beliefs, but even in the way some of us are discussing it on this board.
-- Italiano

There's something wrong with how American's express their religious beliefs? What might that be?

It occurs to me that you do not like Americans very much, but there is little logic to this statement. In some countries you can't even discuss religion in any capacity other than how the government wants you to, so I think that our ability to express how we feel about religion is much healthier than you make it out to be. In America you are allowed to to express your feelings through such discussions, regardless of what religion you practice. That doesn't prevent us from having heated debates and legal arguments about equal treatment and so forth, but it does prevent a totalitarian mindset where you aren't allowed to thank God in an awards speech if you choose to do so.

For me it stems from religion's often unhealthy intolerance of those who don't agree with them. I'm intolerant of religion (and I often am) because I don't see why I should tolerate those who think I'm going to suffer eternal pain because I don't believe in (a) God
--okri

This is one of the silliest things I've ever heard. You don't agree with something so you decide not to even acknowledge it? This is completely not healthy. It is less healthy to not discuss issues than to confront what you perceive to be an injustice or a falsehood. Personally religion is not to blame for the unhealthy intolerance, but certain people's perception of their religious duties. No religion that I know of preaches intolerance or hatred, but some fanatics do believe that they must exclude those who disagree with their faith rather than embracing people with their values. People don't change their hearts and minds through the demand of ignorant people telling them they are inferior. They only change through compassion and self-discovery.

Believing in God is the result of faith and faith is something that comes from personal experiences and a discovery of what is in one's heart. I don't believe in shoving one's beliefs down other people's throats, but also do not believe that someone should remain silent about their beliefs if they are real and if they do not aim to harm. Generally speaking, those who have faith are peaceful people. Like everything else, though, there are some people whose interpretation is more fanatical than the norm.
"Because here’s the thing about life: There’s no accounting for what fate will deal you. Some days when you need a hand. There are other days when we’re called to lend a hand." -- President Joe Biden, 01/20/2021
99-1100896887

Post by 99-1100896887 »

ITALIANO wrote:
Damien wrote:Jennifer's religious beliefs are heartfelt and very sincere.

I can only hope you are joking. Even Hitler's beliefs may have been sincere and heartfelt. You have no idea how many dreadful things (and thoughts) have been done in a sincere way. There is something completely wrong not only - of course - in Jennifer Hudson's and other Americans' expression of their religious beliefs, but even in the way some of us are discussing it on this board.
Then why should be discuss somethingthing that is more personal than even sex on this board? There are other boards to go to for that.
Religious discussions get too personal, and I don't like the way this one is going.
ITALIANO
Emeritus
Posts: 4076
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 1:58 pm
Location: MILAN

Post by ITALIANO »

Damien wrote:Jennifer's religious beliefs are heartfelt and very sincere.

I can only hope you are joking. Even Hitler's beliefs may have been sincere and heartfelt. You have no idea how many dreadful things (and thoughts) have been done in a sincere way. There is something completely wrong not only - of course - in Jennifer Hudson's and other Americans' expression of their religious beliefs, but even in the way some of us are discussing it on this board.
Akash
Professor
Posts: 2037
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:34 am

Post by Akash »

Sabin wrote:Jennifer's beliefs may very well be sincere. They must be. There's nothing really entertaining about a praise party.
Really? I hear you get to whack a pinata until miracles pour out. And then there's pin the tail on the atheist...
Okri
Tenured
Posts: 3352
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 3:28 pm
Location: Edmonton, AB

Post by Okri »

For me it stems from religion's often unhealthy intolerance of those who don't agree with them. I'm intolerant of religion (and I often am) because I don't see why I should tolerate those who think I'm going to suffer eternal pain because I don't believe in (a) God.
Big Magilla
Site Admin
Posts: 19339
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 3:22 pm
Location: Jersey Shore

Post by Big Magilla »

cam wrote:You know, my dad told me that certain areas were beyond the purview of polite conversation. They were: religion, politics, and sex. Sex we have gone through in enough detail( many thanks criddic for the hand!) and politics is a topic that interests intelligent people-- which we all are-- but let me tell you, people can get mighty uppity about religion and what is "theirs". There are some things we don't want to know.
Can we NOT go there, please? What do you feel about this?

Totally agree, though in my day sex was never mentioned even as a topic to stay away from. :O

I think the openness with which sex is discussed today is healthy. Disgussing politics can lead to bitter disagreements, but the disagreements brought about by discussing religion can and often do lead to war.

Nothing makes me sadder than intolerance and that includes religious intolerance. Why do so many people, including atheists, look down on people who do not agree with them? "My father's mansion has many rooms" sayeth the Lord, and if it turns out that the mansion is a house of cards, so what? We'll all find out soon enough, or not, as the case may be.




Edited By Big Magilla on 1173663820
Sabin
Laureate Emeritus
Posts: 10762
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 12:52 am
Contact:

Post by Sabin »

Jennifer's beliefs may very well be sincere. They must be. There's nothing really entertaining about a praise party.
"How's the despair?"
Damien
Laureate
Posts: 6331
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 8:43 pm
Location: New York, New York
Contact:

Post by Damien »

anonymous wrote:
Damien wrote:“I don’t do clubs. I don’t drink. I don’t smoke,” Hudson told a boisterous crowd at Progressive Baptist Church on Chicago's south side on Monday night. “I’m not having no club party; I better have a praise party.”

And what's wrong with that?
I didn't say there was anything wrong with it. I think it shows that unlike right wing "Christians" (hiya, Newt), Jennifer's religious beliefs are heartfelt and very sincere.
"Y'know, that's one of the things I like about Mitt Romney. He's been consistent since he changed his mind." -- Christine O'Donnell
Penelope
Site Admin
Posts: 5663
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2004 11:47 am
Location: Tampa, FL, USA

Post by Penelope »

anonymous wrote:
Damien wrote:“I don’t do clubs. I don’t drink. I don’t smoke,” Hudson told a boisterous crowd at Progressive Baptist Church on Chicago's south side on Monday night. “I’m not having no club party; I better have a praise party.”

And what's wrong with that?
It's a bit hypocritical and, once again, reinforces the ideology that the religious individual considers themself superior to others.
"...it is the weak who are cruel, and...gentleness is only to be expected from the strong." - Leo Reston

"Cruelty might be very human, and it might be cultural, but it's not acceptable." - Jodie Foster
anonymous1980
Laureate
Posts: 6385
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 10:03 pm
Location: Manila
Contact:

Post by anonymous1980 »

Damien wrote:“I don’t do clubs. I don’t drink. I don’t smoke,” Hudson told a boisterous crowd at Progressive Baptist Church on Chicago's south side on Monday night. “I’m not having no club party; I better have a praise party.”
And what's wrong with that?
99-1100896887

Post by 99-1100896887 »

You know, my dad told me that certain areas were beyond the purview of polite conversation. They were: religion, politics, and sex. Sex we have gone through in enough detail( many thanks criddic for the hand!) and politics is a topic that interests intelligent people-- which we all are-- but let me tell you, people can get mighty uppity about religion and what is "theirs". There are some things we don't want to know.
Can we NOT go there, please? What do you feel about this?
Damien
Laureate
Posts: 6331
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 8:43 pm
Location: New York, New York
Contact:

Post by Damien »

I did a Google search for "Jennifer Hudson" God. There were 1,030,000 results, the first being from ChristianToday.com where she was quoted at a gospel concert of which she was part at her Chicago church:

“I don’t do clubs. I don’t drink. I don’t smoke,” Hudson told a boisterous crowd at Progressive Baptist Church on Chicago's south side on Monday night. “I’m not having no club party; I better have a praise party.”
"Y'know, that's one of the things I like about Mitt Romney. He's been consistent since he changed his mind." -- Christine O'Donnell
Akash
Professor
Posts: 2037
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:34 am

Post by Akash »

What if God was one of us?
Just a slob like one of us?
Just a stranger on a bus...
Penelope
Site Admin
Posts: 5663
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2004 11:47 am
Location: Tampa, FL, USA

Post by Penelope »

Ouch, you've wounded me. Argggh....
"...it is the weak who are cruel, and...gentleness is only to be expected from the strong." - Leo Reston

"Cruelty might be very human, and it might be cultural, but it's not acceptable." - Jodie Foster
criddic3
Tenured
Posts: 2875
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2003 11:08 pm
Location: New York, USA
Contact:

Post by criddic3 »

Do you really want to continue this silly discussion?

The bottom line: A person should be able to thank anybody they want in their acceptance speeches, whether it be God or their mother, or their driver or their dog. If they feel that God has been a part of their lives and their success, why shouldn't they say so? It is most definitely not silly and it is definitely not harmful. So, in short, get over yourself.
"Because here’s the thing about life: There’s no accounting for what fate will deal you. Some days when you need a hand. There are other days when we’re called to lend a hand." -- President Joe Biden, 01/20/2021
Post Reply

Return to “General Off-Topic”