Honorary Oscars Wish Lists and Speculation

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Re: Honorary Oscars Wish Lists and Speculation

Postby Reza » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:55 am

Big Magilla wrote:Cantor's award was for "distinguished service to the film community" and not for his largely undistinguished films.


And Charles Boyer got one for establishing the French Research Center in L.A. and not for his career as often mentioned in articles. He was another actor who should have received one for his career.

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Re: Honorary Oscars Wish Lists and Speculation

Postby Big Magilla » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:42 am

Cooper's impending death was well known behind the scenes, though it was Stewart's blubbering presentation that generated public suspicion and confirmation.

Cantor's award was for "distinguished service to the film community" and not for his largely undistinguished films.
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Re: Honorary Oscars Wish Lists and Speculation

Postby Reza » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:30 am

The good thing about the Governor's awards is that compared to the past a more diverse group of people are now being given the award. The Academy looks beyond actors and directors and spreads the gold amongst costume designers, critics, cinematographers, documentarians, composers etc., as well.

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Re: Honorary Oscars Wish Lists and Speculation

Postby Reza » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:21 am

Mister Tee wrote:Reza, FYI: I wasn't suggesting Rosalind Russell didn't deserve the Hersholt for her humanitarian work. I was just saying it also served as a way to give a statue to a woman who'd been nominated multiple times without winning -- a sentiment I read in the Hollywood trades at the time.


Yes, you are right the Hersholt probably was a way to honour Russell for her charity work AND her career.....they probably realised there was no time left for her to later receive a second for her career. If memory serves me right I read an interview of her's where she specifically stated that this award for her charity work meant more to her than any she received for her movies or career.

Cooper was dying when they voted him the honorary with best friend Stewart asked to present.

I think the reason why certain actors are awarded remains blurred intentionally. I would like to think that it is mainly a celebration for an actor's entire career - hence I'm totally fine with the ones Garbo, Lubitsch, Kerr, Vidor, Altman etc received for not having won despite many nods, also Cooper, Olivier, Guinness etc received despite winning in competition as well (this special award encompassed their entire body of work which was considerable) or the ones received by Keaton, Astaire etc which was probably for their long and distinguished careers as well as because they had never even been nominated (Astaire was finally nominated years later for what was quite an after thought).

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Re: Honorary Oscars Wish Lists and Speculation

Postby Mister Tee » Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:34 pm

This discussion prompted me to go back and look at the history of the honorary awards, to see how they evolved.

The first year award to Chaplin was more a one-off -- a way for the small committee to give the man something without including him in their official competition. For the next several years, there were no such prizes. The next one was to Shirley Temple for, essentially, saving a studio -- another one-off. Disney's famous 1 big/7 small Oscars for Snow White was a similar gimmick.

The first career award was to D.W. Griffith in 1935. That, and one two years later to Mack Sennett (as well as those a decade on to Harold Lloyd, and way later to Buster Keaton and Lillian Gish), were a way of honoring the silent era giants who had predated the Oscars.

The first real "because you never won when you were nominated" case seems to be Ernst Lubitsch in 1946, and the first "because you're not the type who generally competes for acting awards" was Fred Astaire in 1949. Garbo, Maurice Chevalier and Orson Welles were later examples o the first sort; Eddie Cantor and Stan Laurel the latter. This brings me up to the years of my youth, of which I already spoke below.

The only example I can find (pre-Pickford/Olivier in the 70) of a career award to someone who'd won a standard Oscar is Gary Cooper in 1960. This one is especially puzzling, since Cooper had two best actor Oscars, one a mere 8 years prior. Totally guessing: might some on the Board of Governors have been trying to insulate the Academy from accusations of pinko-ism -- this was the year Douglas and Preminger hired Dalton Trumbo, breaking the blacklist -- by honoring a guy who testified as a friendly witness to HUAC? Or was it just because they knew he was dying?

Reza, FYI: I wasn't suggesting Rosalind Russell didn't deserve the Hersholt for her humanitarian work. I was just saying it also served as a way to give a statue to a woman who'd been nominated multiple times without winning -- a sentiment I read in the Hollywood trades at the time.

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Re: Honorary Oscars Wish Lists and Speculation

Postby Precious Doll » Sun Sep 16, 2018 1:18 pm

Reza wrote:A list of once very active actors over the age of 60 who are still around, who have never won an Oscar but could get an honorary award - I know some sound rather far fetched

Doris Day, Rhonda Fleming, Arlene Dahl, Ann Blyth, Jane Powell, Dean Stockwell, Irene Papas, Catherine Deneuve, Alain Delon, Max von Sydow, Liv Ullmann, Claudia Cardinale, Jean-Paul Belmondo, Gina Lollobrigida, Robert Wagner, Claire Bloom, Carroll Baker, Leslie Caron, Piper Laurie, Kim Novak, Brigitte Bardot, Geraldine Chaplin, Micheline Presle, Glynis Johns, Machiko Kyô, Hal Halbrook, Michel Bouquet, Jean-Louis Trintignant, Harriet Andersson, Bibi Andersson, Monica Vitti, Albert Finney, Bruce Dern, Valentina Cortese, Harrison Ford, Glenn Close, Ian Holm, Anouk Aimée, Diane Ladd, Marsha Mason, Ann-Margret, Warren Beatty.


No chance of Monica Vitti if the stories are true that she is suffering from advanced Alzheimers. Cross Deneuve off for the time being after the #metoo 'men should be allowed to pester' comments. Cross off Bridget Bardot as she is too controversial with her anti-muslim comments. She is also a supporter of Marine Le Pen and that would not go down well in Hollywood. I know people beliefs shouldn't stop them from getting an award for their work but I doubt the Academy wants to invite controversy.

The only person on your list that I wouldn't award is Robert Wagner. Third rate actor without a single decent film acting credit to his resume.
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Re: Honorary Oscars Wish Lists and Speculation

Postby Okri » Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:47 pm

Mister Tee wrote:I still more enjoy seeing the long-denied get their due -- Deborah Kerr, Myrna Loy, Angela Lansbury, Donald Sutherland -- than seeing, say, Warren Beatty get yet another award late in life.


and

The Original BJ wrote:I'll piggy-back one thing onto Mister Tee's post, all of which I'd agree with...

The Honorary Oscar certainly has been effectively used to reward people who fit in the "you should have won at some point, but you slipped through the cracks" criteria -- Cary Grant and Barbara Stanwyck certainly would qualify there, as would more recent winners like Peter O'Toole or Robert Altman.

But I also think there's a strain of (not undeserving) Honorary winners who I actually DON'T think should have ever won a trophy, at least in literal terms, but whose worthy careers make a lifetime prize essentially the most appropriate place to honor them. Maureen O'Hara might be a good example of this -- I can't say I ever thought she was cruelly denied an Oscar, but her career as a whole was obviously meritorious, and her Honorary prize a pleasing late-in-life triumph.


Very fair. I have to admit there's a degree to which some of these honorary oscars (Cary Grant, Deborah Kerr, Barbara Stanwyck) call attention to the fact that the honorees didn't get a single-work oscar and that almost makes me resent the wins a little more. Now, the three I mentioned and many more have the body of work where an honorary/lifetime achievement award is inarguably deserving, but I still kvetch a little that they didn't get recognized for The Awful Truth/Black Narcissus/pick one.

BJ, I think my favourite winners are the ones that fall into that second category you highlight. It's kinda nice that Gena Rowlands and Steve Martin have an honorary oscar.

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Re: Honorary Oscars Wish Lists and Speculation

Postby Precious Doll » Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:27 pm

Big Magilla wrote:I suspect if Close doesn't win this year there will be a push to get her an honorary soon. Only Ullmann, von Sydow and maybe Caron would seem to have the kind of broad support that would get them honored ahead of her. But they do like to pull surprises. For example, I never expected an honorary award for Eli Wallach, a lovely man who was once my neighbor, but a film legend? Hardly.


I'd add Piper Laurie as well.
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Re: Honorary Oscars Wish Lists and Speculation

Postby Big Magilla » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:55 am

Reza wrote:I don't agree that Pickford's honorary Oscar was a silly choice. She was a huge boxoffice star during the silent era and a powerful figure behind the scenes as well along with Fairbanks and Chaplin. The 1975 award honored that distinguished career. Her Oscar for Coquette most certainly was a travesty but it was won for a specific role. Don't think the Academy thought on the lines that they gave it to her then for her career pre-1928. If the Oscars had been awarded during the silent years she would probably have won three at least for her performances.

Similarly Rosalind Russell's Hersholt was not a veiled career award. She won that for all her incredible charity work she had been doing since the 1930s. She deserved an honorary award for her career as well.

I agree on both counts.

On other points:

The Poitier honorary Oscar was at the 2001 awards at which they finally gave an Oscar to a leading black actress and an Oscar to a leading black actor who wasn't Poitier. It seemed appropriate. What I thought was a real head-scratcher that year was the honorary Oscar to Robert Redford who now has two awards from the Academy, one for directing and one for "inspiring" independent filmmakers through Sundance but none for acting per se.

I do think that actors, directors, writers, cinematographers and others who have made a real contribution to the film industry should get top consideration but previous Oscar winners whose careers have continued to blossom after their Oscar wins like Stewart should merit strong consideration as well. Cagney is one that comes to mind. Had Newman and Fonda won competitive Oscars before their honorary awards which led to competitive wins the following year been awarded a competitive Oscar earlier in their careers, they still would have deserved those honorary awards.

I suspect if Close doesn't win this year there will be a push to get her an honorary soon. Only Ullmann, von Sydow and maybe Caron would seem to have the kind of broad support that would get them honored ahead of her. But they do like to pull surprises. For example, I never expected an honorary award for Eli Wallach, a lovely man who was once my neighbor, but a film legend? Hardly.
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Re: Honorary Oscars Wish Lists and Speculation

Postby Reza » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:10 am

A list of once very active actors over the age of 60 who are still around, who have never won an Oscar but could get an honorary award - I know some sound rather far fetched

Doris Day, Rhonda Fleming, Arlene Dahl, Ann Blyth, Jane Powell, Dean Stockwell, Irene Papas, Catherine Deneuve, Alain Delon, Max von Sydow, Liv Ullmann, Claudia Cardinale, Jean-Paul Belmondo, Gina Lollobrigida, Robert Wagner, Claire Bloom, Carroll Baker, Leslie Caron, Piper Laurie, Kim Novak, Brigitte Bardot, Geraldine Chaplin, Micheline Presle, Glynis Johns, Machiko Kyô, Hal Halbrook, Michel Bouquet, Jean-Louis Trintignant, Harriet Andersson, Bibi Andersson, Monica Vitti, Albert Finney, Bruce Dern, Valentina Cortese, Harrison Ford, Glenn Close, Ian Holm, Anouk Aimée, Diane Ladd, Marsha Mason, Ann-Margret, Warren Beatty.

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Re: Honorary Oscars Wish Lists and Speculation

Postby Reza » Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:30 am

Uri wrote:Regarding Tyson or Earl Jones - no, they don't have as rich a filmography as Doris Day or Donald Sutherland - or, one can say, they don't have the filmography they should have but couldn't, because they were black. So yes, being black has something to do with them being honored, but you know what - I can live with this. It's a way for the Academy, standing in for the American film industry at large, to apologize for not giving a real chance to these gifted people. There are worse justifications for honoring people.

Now, as for honoring Oprah Winfrey....


How wonderful it must be for you, Uri, not to be accused of racism here for saying what I've been harping on below.

Maybe I should throw a little hissy fit like dear Phillip now :D

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Re: Honorary Oscars Wish Lists and Speculation

Postby Reza » Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:24 am

Mister Tee wrote:The first real violation of this pattern I can recall was when the Board voted a special to Mary Pickford in 1975 -- a choice that seemed truly silly, given that most people think the competitive Oscar Pickford won was a travesty.


I don't agree that Pickford's honorary Oscar was a silly choice. She was a huge boxoffice star during the silent era and a powerful figure behind the scenes as well along with Fairbanks and Chaplin. The 1975 award honored that distinguished career. Her Oscar for Coquette most certainly was a travesty but it was won for a specific role. Don't think the Academy thought on the lines that they gave it to her then for her career pre-1928. If the Oscars had been awarded during the silent years she would probably have won three at least for her performances.

Similarly Rosalind Russell's Hersholt was not a veiled career award. She won that for all her incredible charity work she had been doing since the 1930s. She deserved an honorary award for her career as well.

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Re: Honorary Oscars Wish Lists and Speculation

Postby Reza » Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:10 am

Greg wrote:
Reza wrote:Ameche was never nominated nor was he ever a critically acclaimed actor but he also had a career that lasted over 50 years and was in many highly successful musicals, comedies and dramas.


Ameche won for his supporting role in Cocoon


Oops yes of course he did.

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Re: Honorary Oscars Wish Lists and Speculation

Postby Uri » Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:36 am

Regarding Tyson or Earl Jones - no, they don't have as rich a filmography as Doris Day or Donald Sutherland - or, one can say, they don't have the filmography they should have but couldn't, because they were black. So yes, being black has something to do with them being honored, but you know what - I can live with this. It's a way for the Academy, standing in for the American film industry at large, to apologize for not giving a real chance to these gifted people. There are worse justifications for honoring people.

Now, as for honoring Oprah Winfrey....

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Re: Honorary Oscars Wish Lists and Speculation

Postby Precious Doll » Sun Sep 16, 2018 1:40 am

Mister Tee wrote:
Precious Doll wrote:
Reza wrote:
Both Dietrich and Irene Dunne could have easily been honored during the 1950s. After all Garbo was in 1954. Irene Dunne was retired from films by the early 1950s but was very active elsewhere. Dietrich was active in films till the early 1960s and was up, about and very active until the 1970s doing her cabaret act. The Academy had ample time to reward both stars. No need to wait for an actor to be bed ridden before considering them.

Yes indeed, major head scratchers.


I suppose in Garbo's case she had retired. Can't explain Irene Dunne. And look at poor Edward G. Robinson received a posthumous after his death. Nice for the wife and kids but meaningless to him personally. How could arguably one of the greatest actor of his era receive not so much as a single Oscar nomination!


Actually, I don't know if you're aware: the award to Robinson was announced prior to his death; he died sometime between the announcement and the presentation. He'd even had time to write an acceptance speech, which his widow read on the show that year.


DIdn't realise that.
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