School Shooting

[Akash]

Yes, people would move towards killing in other ways, but have you ever heard of a mass killing with a knife?

And sure criminals would get guns, but that's what the NRA always says, but you know what. The possession of those guns, if caught, would put them in jail.

The problem is inept gun regulations are just as bad as no regulations,

You're becoming way too sensible.



Edited By Akash on 1203311195

[OscarGuy]

But, Wes, these gunmen don't always do things pre-meditatedly. It's a random impulse oftentimes. For them to find a gun on the black market would take time and save lives.

And the ATF shouldn't have to go door to door to get guns turned in. If you're a law abiding citizen, you have a permit and they have you identified on record. So, they can find out who has a gun and turn them in.

The problem is inept gun regulations are just as bad as no regulations, so you can't support one without supporting the other. Strict regulations and more harsh penalties for violating them might be more of a deterrent, but regardless of whether you have law abiding citizens with them, criminals will find a way.

The difference would be pre-meditation. There would be no insanity defense. Anyone who went on a killing spree would go to prison, not a psychiatric facility.

[Big Magilla]

My best friend carries a gun in his glove compartment in the event that someone tries to carjack him.

Hopefully only in Texas where it is not a crime to carry a concealed weapon.

People have been killing one another since time began. Where there's a will, there's a way. If it weren't guns, it would be clubs, knives, home made bombs or poison gas, but those things are either harder to come by or not as effective in killing large numbers of people.

I've been threatened by knives twice and a gun once. Though I was frightened of the knives up aginst my chest, I was fairly confident I could talk my assailants out of killing me and I did. I was much more nervous with the erratic kid pointing his gun at me. I was again fairly conifdent I could talk him out of shooting me on purpose, but I wasn't so sure he wouldn't accidentally pull the trigger with his sweaty finger. I'm certain the 16 or 17 year old kid did not purchase the gun legally so I'm not sure what good partial bans do. Only when the bans or sanctions against illegal sales are stiff enough to make gun production prohibitatively expensive will we get to a point where access to guns will make the ability to randomly kill with them a lot tougher. Even if this were done tomorrow, the guns already in existence will be out there for years to come.

[MovieWes]

While I can understand your point about the quantity, Wes, is that what you would say to those families grieving over the loss of their loved ones. "It's ok, your son was only one of a fraction of incidents".

Yes, people would move towards killing in other ways, but have you ever heard of a mass killing with a knife? Certainly not in one major event. People can run away from a knife and a knife-wielder can only attack one person at a time. A gun toter can shoot multiple people in no time without having to chase people down. That's the difference between murder with a knife and murder with a gun.

And sure criminals would get guns, but that's what the NRA always says, but you know what. The possession of those guns, if caught, would put them in jail. Right now, someone possesses a gun, they can walk around freely with impunity and there's nothing we can do to stop someone who suddenly decides to shoot someone.

On the first point, no, I wouldn't say that to a grieving family. Do you think that I have no empathy?

On the second point, that's not what I meant. I never implied that anyone would go on a killing spree with a knife. I said that murders would still happen. But, on the same token, anyone who wants to go on a killing spree will find a way to get a gun on the black market, and those guys don't do background checks. I'd rather live in a society where there are gun regulations, regardless of how incompetant they are, than feed a black market that sells assault rifles, automatic weapons, and armor piercing rounds.

I guess I touched upon the third point in the second, but I'll take it a little further. As I said before, I own a gun (which has never been fired). My dad owns a hunting rifle. My best friend carries a gun in his glove compartment in the event that someone tries to carjack him. We're all law abiding citizens without criminal records. There are millions of others in the United States just like us. Are you saying that, if the government makes gun ownership illegal, that every single gun owner in the United States should suddenly turn in their guns? How would the government even know that all the gun owners have turned in their guns? Do you want ATF agents going door to door asking, "Excuse me, do you own a gun? If you wouldn't mind, I'd like you to hand it over" or "No? Well then you wouldn't mind us searching your home then, would you?"

[Sabin]

Late coming to this one but I have to ask...do we know for a minute what this young man 'suffered' from? Because millions of Americans take medication for stress disorders, properly or improperly diagnosed. When I hear mentally ill, I wonder what are we talking about and what are we talking around? Gun ownership or medication ownership?

I'm not jumping into the gun ownership discussion because it's fairly pointless. I'm very much for gun control and background checks even though gun shows are an underregulated disaster. I'm inclined to blame the little shit who lost his mind before pills and guns. It doesn't sound like he had a crippling mental disorder but I really don't know.

Why does it happen? I think the answer's simple. It happens because it's America, the easiest place in the world to be isolated and socially inept. We live in a country that is as consumerist as it is huge, so you have millions of youths unprepared for social interaction enabled by an omniprescient media, internet and video game horseshit that substitues real friends for iFriends, and parents too willing to let developmental oversights go by. I don't know this kid or what he was going through; it's entirely possible that none of this applies, that he was fucking the shit out of every girl in his school and decided enough is enough, but that the qualities that make a good student and a good lay differ greatly, it seems like this kid got too wrapped up in his studies and not in a social life and couldn't break the cycle.

Not to sound hypocritical especially considering that I don't know the young man's state of mind but he can go fuck himself. 27! Wow. We're not talking about a high school kid who nobody properly instructed that this too shall pass. We're talking about an unstable douchebag a year away from his reunion. We're talking about an adult acting like a child (another quintessential Americanism, let's agree) and not seeing any other alternative. Barring untold relevant information, this dude is worse than those Columbine fuckers and that genuinely deranged Virginia Tech fucker.



Edited By Sabin on 1203185463

[OscarGuy]

While I can understand your point about the quantity, Wes, is that what you would say to those families grieving over the loss of their loved ones. "It's ok, your son was only one of a fraction of incidents".

Yes, people would move towards killing in other ways, but have you ever heard of a mass killing with a knife? Certainly not in one major event. People can run away from a knife and a knife-wielder can only attack one person at a time. A gun toter can shoot multiple people in no time without having to chase people down. That's the difference between murder with a knife and murder with a gun.

And sure criminals would get guns, but that's what the NRA always says, but you know what. The possession of those guns, if caught, would put them in jail. Right now, someone possesses a gun, they can walk around freely with impunity and there's nothing we can do to stop someone who suddenly decides to shoot someone.

[MovieWes]

But Sweet Jesus, how tiny does your dick have to be that you get off on killing animals in the woods?

My absolute favorite news headline: Hunter Accidentally Killed By A Fellow Hunter

Hahahha! Good for you, you fuck.

Believe it or not, there are still some people that hunt for food (even if the actual act of hunting is recreational). And while I've never gone hunting in my entire life, I do enjoy venison very much.

[Akash]

But Sweet Jesus, how tiny does your dick have to be that you get off on killing animals in the woods?

Exactly.

[Damien]

If you like target shooting or hunting or you want a gun around the house to feel protected and you're responsible and safe, etc. By all means, you can have them.

There's no way hunting is ever going to be illegal, and it probably shouldn't be -- you can't reasonably outlaw something so ingrained in the (deeply disturbed) American psyche. But Sweet Jesus, how tiny does your dick have to be that you get off on killing animals in the woods?

My absolute favorite news headline: Hunter Accidentally Killed By A Fellow Hunter

Hahahha! Good for you, you fuck.



Edited By Damien on 1203147267

[MovieWes]

And MovieWes, no offense, but I seriously don't know how to respond to your comparing GUN OWNERSHIP to GAY MARRIAGE.

If you'd read my statement in the correct context, you'd know that my comment wasn't homophobic in the least. I was merely stating that some of you like to pick and choose when it comes to the constitution. In other threads, some of you have said that banning gay marriage is unconstitutional. However, the same people want to make gun ownership illegal, which is CLEARLY unconstitutional (regardless of Damien's interpretation of the Second Amendment).

I'm not against gun control. I think that background checks are needed when purchasing firearms and I'm appalled at how lax our gun control policies are at the moment. However, I'm dead-set against making guns illegal across-the-board.



Edited By MovieWes on 1203145231

[anonymous1980]

For the record, I'm NOT against owning guns.

If you like target shooting or hunting or you want a gun around the house to feel protected and you're responsible and safe, etc. By all means, you can have them.

I just feel that if you have a physical or mental disability or have a violent criminal past, you should not be allowed to legally own a gun. It's just plain common fucking sense.

[Akash]

Meh, sorry Damien, I always thought he was a shitty actor. And his behavior after Columbine was so odious, I can never see him in a positive light.

And how many times did he get to vote for Best Picture 2000?

And MovieWes, no offense, but I seriously don't know how to respond to your comparing GUN OWNERSHIP to GAY MARRIAGE.



Edited By Akash on 1203140649

[Damien]

How long can Charlton Heston live?

Aww, come on, Charlton Heston is a wonderful screen icon.

And before he became a right-wing nutzoid (starting when my adored George McGovern got the Democratic nomination in 1972, the same horrid event that sent Rudy Giuliani running into the arms of the Republicans), Heston was one of Hollywood's most prominent liberals.

I think maybe he hit hs head while making Skyjacked and the injury made him cuckoo.

[Damien]

Plus, it's our constitutional right to bear arms. You argue that banning gay marriage is unconstitutional, but you think it's okay to take away our right to bear arms? Talk about a double standard. Or is it okay to be unconstitutional only when it suits your political agenda?

This is one of those political arguments that are rather pointless because each side is so sure of its right-ness and nobody's gonna change his or her mind (well, maybe if an N.R.A. member's kid is among those taken down in a school shooting).

But Wes, I will point out that in talking about "our constitutional right to bear arms," you conveniently leave out the first part of the Second Amendment, "A well-regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State,". Quite clearly, the right to have guns extends only to those using them in a military proceedong.

And doesn't "well-regulated" sound like a synonymn for "gun control"?



Edited By Damien on 1203133773

[Sonic Youth]

Plus, it's our constitutional right to bear arms. You argue that banning gay marriage is unconstitutional, but you think it's okay to take away our right to bear arms? Talk about a double standard.

Never thought of it that way. But you do have a point, since both deal with issues of gun ownership.