Euthanasia case in Italy

Post by **OscarGuy** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:33 pm

Wow. I was just reading an article earlier today that suggested should could live for two weeks without life support. That she died so quickly is, if I believed in such things, divine intervention.

Zahveed · Post by **Zahveed** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:07 pm

ITALIANO wrote:Never been easy here.

All things will run their course. Times will be better and in all places of the world, if only for a day.

Post by **ITALIANO** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:30 pm

She finally died a few hours ago. And Italy is exploding.

It's the Catholic Church - and the politicians who don't want to lose its powerful support. That's always been our big problem. Things that in other countries were easily obtained - divorce, legalized abortion - in Italy were always a slow, painful process. In the end we got them - like one day we will finally get, I am sure, even gay marriage or something similar - but we always had to fight so much. Never been easy here.

Zahveed · Post by **Zahveed** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:41 pm

What an unusual thread. It's nearly science fiction.

Post by **OscarGuy** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:33 pm

Ok. Then the Prime Minister's an idiot (though I still maintain the Catholic Church is full of idiots, but not necessarily because of this specific issue).

Post by **anonymous1980** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:53 pm

I studied Catholic doctrine when I was in high school and college. Contrary to popular belief, the Catholic Church rules PASSIVE euthanasia as just and moral like choosing to withhold further medication/extraordinary medication just to prolong life or pulling the plug on someone who is brain-dead. I don't know what the Prime Minister is thinking.

Post by **Sonic Youth** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:48 pm

It's not rape. Violating sexual organs would be rape, not the reproductive organs. This is equivalent to having a patient's kidney removed without his consent, or something. Anyway, no one's going to maker her have babies or farm for her organs, so I promise not to contribute to what I'll diplomatically call a theoretical discussion.

Post by **Big Magilla** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:42 pm

Read carefully, it's not the Church that is sanctioning rape, but the idiot Prime Minister. It was he, not the Church that said "she can still have babies".

That said, the Vatican is out of line here and going against the Church's general stance which is not to prolong life by artificial means. When the brain is dead, it's dead.

From the article:

Prior to issuing the decree, Berlusconi was involved in frantic telephone exchanges with the Vatican head of state, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, who implored the prime minister to prevent Eluana's death. The cardinal reportedly told Berlusconi: "We have to stop this crime against humanity."

Post by **OscarGuy** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:13 pm

It's no different than rape really. When a woman has been knocked unconscious by a date rape drug or other method, it's considered rape if a man sleeps with her. But if she's in a coma, how does using her for her reproductive organs not equate to rape? She has no say in the matter...it's basically the same thing. I guess church-sanctioned rape is not considered rape.

Edited By OscarGuy on 1234203250

Zahveed · Post by **Zahveed** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:09 pm

Why does that remind me of the book The Giver? Is it the assignment of women for human production to keep some crazy experiment working? Even when all your senses are diluted.

Post by **Sonic Youth** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:22 pm

How's that for a solution, Marco?

Post by **OscarGuy** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:04 am

Then that's just fucking retarded. Let's nuke the Vatican...it deserves it.

Post by **ITALIANO** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:39 am

And she's not even married by the way.

Post by **OscarGuy** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:50 am

You know. I can understand a group wanting to preserve life. However, what disturbs me most is the comment about her still being able to have babies. Do they really expect her husband to fuck her while she's on life support and make her a baby factory? It makes it sound like the church believes that a woman, once married, is the property of the husband and she no longer has a say in how her body is used. Regardless of whether she could speak or not, this sounds exactly like rape to me. Does the church condone rape? It's all very disturbing and one of the reasons why the church should be separated from the state, which is supposed to create laws that PROTECT the masses from the church when its views are a disservice to society.

Post by **ITALIANO** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:49 am

Sonic Youth wrote: That the goverment isn't respecting his wishes and using this tragedy as an opportunity for grandstanding is appalling.

It's also using it for other, even less honorable reasons - like trying to limit, by announcing an unheard-of change of the Constitution, the already limited powers of the President of the Republic (who opposed Berlusconi's decision to annul the judges' verdict about the girl's destiny. It should also be noted that this verdict came after several long trials and that the girl's family always proved that, when she was alive, she made clear that this would have been her choice had she ever been in such a situation).

But of course this is just another, maybe the worst, example of this typically Italian collusion between Berlusconi's government and a catholic Church which is very careful to prserve its political, cultural and of course economical power.

Much worse than in the US.

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Euthanasia case in Italy