New Rules - Bill Maher's Musings

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criddic3
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Post by criddic3 »

Well my position, as stated before, is that it should be ALL or NONE. This country was founded partly on religious freedom and I think that includes affording the majority religion some respect.

I have seen numerous movies where they have a Catholic character, only to present him or her as overzealous or hypocritical. Rare is it that a Catholic or other Christian character is seen as a down-to-Earth, good person. I'm not saying it never happens, but it is rare. And that sometimes makes it seem like people are gunning for people who believe in the Christian faith. This feeling is part of what led many Evangelical Christians to vote for George W. Bush in 2004, a man who they felt more comfortable with because he shares most of their values. I am a Catholic, not an Evangelical. My father was Jewish and my mother is now married to a man who converted from the Jewish faith when he married her. (although I think one of his parents was Catholic, too).

I am not a Bible-thumping type. I believe in a more quiet affirmation of my faith. But I have heard of cases, such as the one where a man went to court against a school trying to change the Pledge of Allegience and used his daughter as an example. The court dismissed the case, because the girl was not complaining about the words "under God" nor was her mother. It was his own agenda, which is what I find happens a lot when people debate about religion in public places. Why, for example, should children not be allowed to affirm their faith in class? Does it really harm the other children if a child talks about his beliefs? Isn't school supposed to be a place for free thinking and learning? [There, another example for you]

I would feel just as passionately if a person was told he couldn't speak about the Muslim, Jewish or Atheist beliefs he/she had. Different views are always good, particularly in the odd way they can help a person to figure out why they hold their own opinions.

I think this is another case where your misperception of my posts has got the best of you.
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Post by Sonic Youth »

I did ask for it, didn't I?

Fine. I asked for one and you provided one. But for every lawsuit to end a ban on Christian symbols you can produce, I can quote stories of lawsuits requesting bans on Jewish, Muslim and other symbols.

Here's this report:

West Windsor, NJ — With every Christmas tree we light — on public property, in an age of political correctness — come questions of freedom of speech and the separation of church and state.

Going back on a preliminary legal opinion not to allow Rabbi Sholom Leverton and Chabad of the Windsors to erect a lighted menorah in the Ron Rogers Arboretum at Clarksville Road and Route 571, township attorney Michael Herbert said the group should not be barred from displaying a menorah near the township's Christmas tree display.

http://www.crownheights.info/?itemid=1067



Meaning: a township initially decided to allow a Christmas tree and bar a Chanukah menorah.

And let's not even mention that most of the Nativity banning references that I could find seem to arise from two incidents, a decision for a New York school and the one that you posted. Two stories that are repeatedly used by Christians in a never-ending fashion in order to illustrate that there is an anti-Christmas bias EVERYWHERE. That is an absolute falsehood. You said "Look at all the times someone has brought a lawsuit." Geez, Criddic, the way you chose your words, you made it sound as if this goes on all the time. You are only going to be able to state a few cases at best. Probably your awareness to this is overly-cognizant because the internet is drowning in these stories, relentlessly spread by fundamentalist and far right-wing websites. And then the exception becomes the rule.

Read this:

http://www.uua.org/CONG/column143.html

This is what most of the "banning Christmas" stories usually are. First the city removes the symbols, then they reverse themselves. But first they add the non-Christian symbols, and stoke the outrage the Christians who are convinced there was an attack and a ban on their religion. Obviously, it was nothing of the kind. It was just a matter of timing.

Not to mention, most places that display a menorah or any other symbol that's non-Christian are only done so as an empty token gesture. They put up with it so they can leave their Christmas display standing. Here's an example of that.

What you seem to want us to believe, Criddic, is that Christian displays are in the minority. Or that Jewish symbols are excluded less often than Christian symbols. Or that Christian displays do not dominate in our society, and that symbols from other religions are preferred over Christian symbols.

If that's not what you were saying, then you don't have much of an argument left. And if you WERE saying that, then your reasoning is beyond infantile. Christainity is the dominant religion, they have the VAST MAJORITY of public displays - and don't try to lie and say that most of them get challenged with threats of lawsuits; tons of them do not, especially in the bible belt - and while a few exclusions here and there happen, a vast majority of non-Christian exclusions flourish in this country. And you still want to whine about persecution while you have it so good?

Only a spoiled brat takes on the whimpering attitude that they're being "attacked" and "excluded" because they're not always allowed to have the God-given dominance over everyone else that they expect to have handed to them.
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Post by criddic3 »

HOLIDAY BLUES

Federal court backs public nativity scene

Town apologizes for allowing Jewish display, but not Christian
Posted: June 30, 2004 1:00 a.m. Eastern
© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com

In a federal-court consent judgment, the town of Palm Beach, Fla., paid $50,000 in attorney fees and apologized for not allowing the display of Christian nativity scenes while permitting Jewish menorahs. The Michigan-based Thomas More Law Center, a public-interest law firm, brought the suit on behalf of Maureen Donnell and Fern deNarvaez.
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Post by Sonic Youth »

criddic3 wrote:Christians may be 80%, but they are often ridiculed and presented in the media and in films as either buffoons or hypocrites. That is what is unfair to many Christians.

Please, criddic, give some examples. And tell us in what proportion to other groups. I'm not much of a television watcher, but I can't think of a single show that presents Christians more negatively than positively. The few times I watched The West Wing, I did notice right-wing Christians were not portrayed in a positive light, but I also noticed that more often Christians are portrayed QUITE positively and respectfully, and President Bartlet himself is very religious.

Or movies. Here's a handy list of movies that were released last year, to make it easier for you. How many of these portray Christians in a light that's more negative than positive?


If they are the majority religion they should be afforded some respect, at the least.


Why?

And what makes you think they aren't? There's no religion in this country that's treated MORE respectfully than Christianity. Easter, Christmas and the Dec. 31st/Jan. 1st New Years are all national holidays. How many Jewish, Muslim or otherwise holidays are observed in the same fashion? I think the number is zero, right? How may non-Christian presidents have we had? Unless I've miscounted, the number is again zero. How many non-Christian law-makers and judges have there been? Most of them have been Christian, too.

You are right that the ocassional independent figure comes out and criticizes Christianity. But most shy away from that and pay it a great deal of respect, particularly politicians. Usually what's criticized are high-level figures like Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell when they make their inane, bigoted remarks. And you can't blame anyone for drawing attention to that.

Look at all the times someone has brought a lawsuit because someone doesn't want a Christian symbol next to a Jewish symbol and similar instances?


You just made that up.

I've been following this "War Against Christmas" for years, and I have NEVER heard of anything like that. There have been lawsuits filed by non-Christians in order to prevent a Christian cross being placed next to a Star of David? Please provide specific examples, criddic.

My philosophy is, in public arenas it is ok to suggest that you include all or none, but there have been cases where people have insisted that Christian signs, songs or messages should be banned from schools and other such places, but not any other religious symbols.


Again, I've NEVER heard anything like that. Name a single case where somone insisted that "signs, songs or messages" from every other religion be allowed in public schools while banning Christian signs, songs or messages from the same location.

Thank you for perfectly illustrating the very thing Bill Maher was writing about: IMAGINED persecution.
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Post by The Original BJ »

criddic3 wrote:My philosophy is, in public arenas it is ok to suggest that you include all or none, but there have been cases where people have insisted that Christian signs, songs or messages should be banned from schools and other such places, but not any other religious symbols.

Excuse me?

Replace 'Christian' with 'Muslim' in the above sentence and you have a point.

What perfect evidence of some Christians' ignorance of truly oppressed religious minorities in America.
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Post by criddic3 »

Christians may be 80%, but they are often ridiculed and presented in the media and in films as either buffoons or hypocrites. That is what is unfair to many Christians. If they are the majority religion they should be afforded some respect, at the least. Look at all the times someone has brought a lawsuit because someone doesn't want a Christian symbol next to a Jewish symbol and similar instances? My philosophy is, in public arenas it is ok to suggest that you include all or none, but there have been cases where people have insisted that Christian signs, songs or messages should be banned from schools and other such places, but not any other religious symbols. I suppose this is some form of affirmative action, where you make the minority religions feel more powerful by "standing up" to the majority, but that is not fair and it does not hold up to our Freedom of Speech that these same people argue is their reason for making these outrageous complaints.
"Because here’s the thing about life: There’s no accounting for what fate will deal you. Some days when you need a hand. There are other days when we’re called to lend a hand." -- President Joe Biden, 01/20/2021
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Post by Damien »

I never did keep this thread up, but last week's comments about those who distort Jesus's teachings were wonderful:

New Rule: People who run everything can't complain that they're underdogs. To whit, this week, there was a highly-attended conference in Washington called "The War on Christians." Because nothing quite says "I'm oppressed," like the opulent Regency Ballroom of the Omni Shoreham Hotel.

Ah, yes, whatever happened to that plucky little cult, Christianity? Oh, that's right, they're 80% of the American people, and have taken over all three branches of government, country music, public schools, the bestseller list, and until recently, Katie Holmes. You know, Christians, I don't mind that you're part of a dress-up cult that hates sex and worships magic but the paranoia, that does scare me.

Did you know that the Missouri legislature recently felt the need to propose a resolution declaring Christianity Missouri's majority religion. No kidding. Really, you mean people aren't saying, "Gosh, I'd like to go to Missouri, but...to Jewish." In Savannah, recently, a children's book about a baby penguin who is raised by two male penguins - ahh! - was removed from the library for its homosexual overtones. Because you know penguins, in those tuxedos, with the dreamy eyes. Huge fags!

The Christian right are now officially the party of paranoia. Secularists are attacking Christmas! Gays are attacking marriage! Liberals are attacking values! White girls are being abducted at an alarming rate! You know, if you're going to be that paranoid all the time, just get high.

And the worst part is, the people bitching loudest about being persecuted for their Christianity aren't Christians at all. They're demagogues and conmen and scolds. And the only thing they worship is power. If you believe Jesus ever had a good word for war or torture or tax cuts for the rich, or raping the earth, or refusing water to dying migrants, then you might as well believe bunnies lay painted eggs.

And Jesus - and Jesus never said a word about gay marriage. He was much too busy hanging out with 12 guys. Now - now I know George Bush says Jesus Christ changed his heart. But believe me, Dick Cheney changed it back. The only thing Bush has in common with Jesus is they both went into their father's business and got crucified for it.

Thomas Jefferson called the type of Christian who trumpets his own belief in the divinity of Jesus rather than the morality of Jesus "pseudo-Christians." And that's who's running our country today. And since they thrive so much on turning water into "whining"—and get off on their endless pretend persecution, this Easter season, let's give them what they want. Let's go to the zoo, get some lions, and feed them Tom DeLay.
"Y'know, that's one of the things I like about Mitt Romney. He's been consistent since he changed his mind." -- Christine O'Donnell
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Post by Damien »

This week's edition:

September 16, 2005

It's time for this week's New Rules.

New Rule: Michael Brown must un-resign so he can be publicly fired. We are not letting you off that easy, Brownie. You can't just slink off midway through your service. This is FEMA, not the Texas Air National Guard.

New Rule: The fortunes in fortune cookies have to be fortunes. "You surround yourself with good friends" is not a prediction. It's a compliment. Quit kissing my ass, cookie! If I'm going to sit through a plate of MSG-laden, twice-cooked kitty-cat, I want a real fortune like, "That meal you just ate is going to give you cancer."

New Rule: There aren't "101 Sex Tricks." In fact, ladies, there is only one. It's called the blowjob. Do it 101 times.

New Rule: A terrorist threat should not end with the words, "Seriously, dude." A terrorist video has surfaced wherein an Al Qaeda operative from Orange County--threatened the U.S. Hey, face it, man, you're not a jihadist. You're Napoleon Dynamite with this mother's dishtowel on his head. Turn off the camcorder, go back to your parents' basement and download porn, you loser.

New Rule: Stop telling me celebrities are too thin, when really the rest of America is too fat. I think I know where Nicole Richie's boobs went. [photo of obese man in swimsuit] This guy's got 'em.

And finally, New Rule: For Christ's sake, no more devil movies. "The Exorcism of Emily Rose" opened huge last week, and it surprised a lot of people, mostly because Owen Wilson wasn't in it. But exorcism, or as the Catholics call it, "elective surgery," is a popular theme nowadays because it reinforces the comforting notion that evil resides outside of us.

Well, I'm sorry, but it doesn't. And whenever I hear someone blame a bombing in Baghdad or a levee breaking in New Orleans on the forces of evil, it makes me so mad I just want to grab my pitchfork and stick it right through my cloven hoof!

Now, Americans have always loved devil movies: "The Exorcist," "The Omen," "Rosemary's Baby," "The Devil's Advocate." The list goes on forever because Americans love the devil. Why? Because he's simple and he provides a simple answer. He did it.

But evil is not a demon with a tail and horns. That's a Jew. And evil - evil isn't some spectral goblin with red eyes and the voice of Anthony Hopkins. That's Anthony Hopkins.

Is George Bush purely evil? Of course not. And that's what's so evil about him. He doesn't twirl a mustache and smirk and cackle. Well, he doesn't twirl a mustache. He's like the Peanuts character Pigpen. Wherever he goes, he stirs up such a humongous mess it can only be cleaned up by Halliburton. But he is not pure evil.

Because evil is a chain. Did any one person doom New Orleans? No, it's a chain. People vote for a corrupt leader; a corrupt leader puts unqualified cronies in high places, and when those cronies #### up, evil gets done. The devil didn't fly up from hell and knock a hole in that levee. The levee just didn't get built because the money for it went to rich people's tax cuts and pork projects and corporate welfare.

Evil isn't "Salem's Lot." It's Trent Lott. This week, an ailing American bald eagle was found to be dying from mercury poisoning. Republicans immediately tried to blame it on the eagle's lifestyle choices. But it's worth noting that also this week, the White House threatened to veto limits on mercury pollution. Now, pure evil would be if George Bush sat around the White House saying, "Let's poison eagles!" And even I don't believe George Bush would do that.

Cheney would do that. And even he is not pure evil. Dick Cheney doesn't hate poor children and caribou. They're just in the way.

Bottom line: some people think Satan is real and some people think global warming is real. If you think stopping gays from doing it is more important than the ice caps melting, the boogeyman is you...
"Y'know, that's one of the things I like about Mitt Romney. He's been consistent since he changed his mind." -- Christine O'Donnell
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Post by Damien »

Bill Maher's "New Rules" for this week:


September 9, 2005

All right, it is time for New Rules, everybody. New Rules.

Okay, New Rule: No more gift registries. You know, it used to be just for weddings. Now it's for babies and new homes and graduations from rehab. Picking up the stuff you want and having other people buy it for you isn't gift giving, it's the white people version of looting.

New Rule: Don't drag kids into adult fights. Everybody knows you don't exploit children as pawns during a strike. You exploit children as pawns during a divorce! Let's limit kids to their one true airline responsibility: kicking the back of my seat.

New Rule: The term, "CPT," which stands for Colored People's Time, based on the belief that blacks are often late, must now be renamed "FGT," for "Federal Government Time." And when people like Mike Brown walk in anywhere, even five minutes late, everyone must roll their eyes and mumble, "FGT."

New Rule, and this one is long overdue: No more bathroom attendants. After I zip up, some guy is offering me a towel and a mint like I just had sex with George Michael. I can't even tell if he's supposed to be there, or just some freak with a fetish. I don't want to be on your webcam, dude. I just want to wash my hands.

And finally, New Rule: America must recall the president. That's what this country needs. A good, old-fashioned, California-style recall election! Complete with Gary Coleman, porno actresses and action film stars. And just like Schwarzenegger's predecessor here in California, George Bush is now so unpopular, he must defend his jog against...Russell Crowe. Because at this point, I want a leader who will throw a phone at somebody. In fact, let's have only phone throwers. Naomi Campbell can be the vice-president!

Now, I kid, but seriously, Mr. President, this job can't be fun for you anymore. There's no more money to spend. You used up all of that. You can't start another war because you also used up the army. And now, darn the luck, the rest of your term has become the Bush family nightmare: helping poor people.

Yeah, listen to your mom. The cupboard's bare, the credit card's maxed out, and no one is speaking to you: mission accomplished! Now it's time to do what you've always done best: lose interest and walk away. Like you did with your military service. And the oil company. And the baseball team. It's time. Time to move on and try the next fantasy job. How about cowboy or spaceman?!

Now, I know what you're saying. You're saying that there's so many other things that you, as president, could involve yourself in...Please don't. I know, I know, there's a lot left to do. There's a war with Venezuela, and eliminating the sales tax on yachts. Turning the space program over to the church. And Social Security to Fannie Mae. Giving embryos the vote. But, sir, none of that is going to happen now. Why? Because you govern like Billy Joel drives. You've performed so poorly I'm surprised you haven't given yourself a medal. You're a catastrophe that walks like a man.

Herbert Hoover was a shitty president, but even he never conceded an entire metropolis to rising water and snakes.

On your watch, we've lost almost all of our allies, the surplus, four airliners, two Trade Centers, a piece of the Pentagon and the City of New Orleans...Maybe you're just not lucky!

I'm not saying you don't love this country. I'm just wondering how much worse it could be if you were on the other side. So, yes, God does speak to you, and what he's saying is, "Take a hint."
"Y'know, that's one of the things I like about Mitt Romney. He's been consistent since he changed his mind." -- Christine O'Donnell
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