Correcting Oscar 2011

[Sabin]

Mister Tee wrote
I think there are times when numbers don't tell the whole story when it comes to decisions like these. People can tell me, over and over, that Anthony Hopkins' screen time in Silence of the Lambs was quite limited, but I know without doubt that he made such an impression that he'd be insanely over-qualified for a supporting nomination.

I think Viola Davis in The Help is a similar case. By sheer force of will, she made herself the most important character in The Help (certainly compared to Emma Stone, who's fine, but feels like the star who blocks the view of the characters who truly interest us). Octavia Spencer had a classic supporting role, and was honored for it. Putting her and Viola on the same platform seems all wrong. I say the placements are as they should be.

Even though I do think that Hopkins should be considered supporting, I think this is a very good point. I wrote about this a bit in the 2018 thread. If one were to read the screenplay for The Favourite, I think most people would come away thinking that Emma Stone was the lead and Olivia Colman had a very colorful supporting role. That is not the experience of watching the film at all. It's this intangible quality that only a brilliant piece of casting can accomplish that transforms the writers intentions.

[Mister Tee]

I think there are times when numbers don't tell the whole story when it comes to decisions like these. People can tell me, over and over, that Anthony Hopkins' screen time in Silence of the Lambs was quite limited, but I know without doubt that he made such an impression that he'd be insanely over-qualified for a supporting nomination.

I think Viola Davis in The Help is a similar case. By sheer force of will, she made herself the most important character in The Help (certainly compared to Emma Stone, who's fine, but feels like the star who blocks the view of the characters who truly interest us). Octavia Spencer had a classic supporting role, and was honored for it. Putting her and Viola on the same platform seems all wrong. I say the placements are as they should be.

[Sabin]

OscargGuy wrote
I think that one of the reasons The Help earned a reputation as being a White Savior film is that Stone's character is the main character whose interviews with the Black maids drive the narrative as the author of the book that upsets the entire town. Davis is sure in a lot of scenes, but it all feels very much in service to the primary narrative. This seems like the kind of film that would justify every actor competing in support rather than lead. As much time as Stone has in the film, she's absent for a lot of it as her narrative tells the story of the maids themselves.

I thought about this and I don't know if everybody in the film is supporting. A case cannot be made that Octavia Spencer is a co-lead in the film. That is clearly the B Story. The A Story is about the writing of the book and that story is the main drive of Emma Stone. She is clearly the central figure of it all. The story is being told by Viola Davis and her story is central only to the A Story. The story with her raising the white child is an expansion of the A Story. That said, she's also a largely passive figure. I would be interested in seeing how much screen-time Emma Stone has in the film. If she is in the film over 50%, I would say that Viola Davis is supporting. If she's in the film less than 50%, I would say Viola Davis is the lead. My hunch is that Emma Stone is in the film less than 50% because of how much screen-time is allocated to Octavia Spencer/Jessica Chastain.

[OscarGuy]

I think that one of the reasons The Help earned a reputation as being a White Savior film is that Stone's character is the main character whose interviews with the Black maids drive the narrative as the author of the book that upsets the entire town. Davis is sure in a lot of scenes, but it all feels very much in service to the primary narrative. This seems like the kind of film that would justify every actor competing in support rather than lead. As much time as Stone has in the film, she's absent for a lot of it as her narrative tells the story of the maids themselves.

A case could be made for Davis based solely on the closing scene where she walks down the street crying, but ultimately standing up straighter knowing that she did what was right. It sure makes the film sound like it was about her triumph over white villainy. But as Sabin said, Spencer has a fairly large part to play in this as well since it's her story about the pie that really sets the tone for the film.

[Sabin]

Big Magilla wrote
would have to see it again, but my memory of it is that it is told from Emma Stone's perspective and while Davis' character is the strongest of the women her character profiles, she is still one of those being profiled as opposed to driving the narrative.

Yeah I’d have to see it again as well. I’m borderline on it.

[Big Magilla]

Big Magilla wrote
I haven't found a reason in the intervening years to change my mind, so I vote supporting for both Béjo and Davis.

Why do you think Viola Davis is supporting in The Help?

I would have to see it again, but my memory of it is that it is told from Emma Stone's perspective and while Davis' character is the strongest of the women her character profiles, she is still one of those being profiled as opposed to driving the narrative.

[Sabin]

Big Magilla wrote
I haven't found a reason in the intervening years to change my mind, so I vote supporting for both Béjo and Davis.

Why do you think Viola Davis is supporting in The Help?

[Big Magilla]

2011 was such a rotten year for English-language movies for me that only one, Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy, made by Swedish director Tomas Alfredson, made my top five, and that only in fifth place. It was preceded on my list by A Separation, Of Gods and Men, The Artist, and Poetry in that order.

Poetry's Jeong-hie Youn, the South Korean Sophia Loren, who won the L.A. Film Critics award for her beautiful empathetic performance, was my clear favorite that year over Charlize Thereon (Young Adult) and Oscar nominees Streep (Iron Lady), Close (Albert Nobbs), and Williams (My Week with Marilyn).

My supporting actress nominees were Janet McTeer (Albert Nobbs), Béjo, and the three ladies from The Help), Davis, Spencer, and Jessica Chastain. Davis and Spencer were good, of course, but my favorite was Chastain whose performance I found the most surprising. Spencer would win my award two years later for Fruitvale Station, Davis three years that for Fences.

I haven't found a reason in the intervening years to change my mind, so I vote supporting for both Béjo and Davis.

[Sabin]

The most interesting thing for me about doing this project has been going through the stats and being wholly surprised by the data. I already know how some of these conversations are going to go. I'll be surprised if Hailee Steinfeld ends up still locked in the supporting category. But I had no idea that Berenice Bejo (whom I was convinced would be a solid case for lead) only had 29.57% of the screen-time in The Artist. I was confident she was a solid contender for lead consideration. I've only seen The Artist once over a decade ago but I'm confident that her presence in the film is more than a plot function to contrast as rise to Jean Dujardin's fall. I'm reasonably sure that she is on-screen in scenes without Jean Dujardin but I couldn't swear to it. I'm inclined to think that traditional romantic comedy rules would boost her to lead status. I also wonder if this stat is a little misleading because it only tracks her screen-time and I vaguely recall The Artist being organized and shot in a manner that favors Dujardin's screen time. Bejo is present during the third act passage where Dujardin is going to possibly kill himself but she only arrives in brief shots.

Besides that, while she was considered supporting by SAG, the HFPA, and the Oscars, she was considered leading from BAFTA and the Cesars.

I think her screen-time is deceptive but I couldn't swear to it. I'm inclined to think that she is a lead. Could she have gotten a nomination that year? I think so. While there was a plethora of incredible contenders for Best Actress in 2011, they weren't strongly represented in the actual race in which there was a lot of affection for The Artist. Viola Davis, Meryl Streep, and Michelle Williams were the strongest locks with Glenn Close and Rooney Mara on the outside contending against Tilda Swinton in We Need to Talk About Kevin. I think Berenice Bejo could've gotten in over Close and Swinton for her well-liked film. I suppose that would've cleared the way in the category of Best Supporting Actress for Shailene Woodley in The Descendants.

Then there's Viola Davis for The Help. I similarly haven't seen The Help since its release but I remember being pleasantly surprised simply because as far as medicine goes it was far easier to stomach than I had anticipated simply because I wasn't expecting Octavia Spencer's character to get her own storyline. I found that pairing to be surprising and very funny and I'll still modestly defend that film on those grounds. I have no breakdown of Emma Stone's screen-time but I think most people would agree that she is the central figure of the story. Should Viola Davis be considered a lead? She certainly has a storyline of her own but so does Octavia Spencer. Viola Davis has 31.60% of the screen-time while Octavia Spencer has 23.88% of the screen-time. That's a chunk more but not a ton. The biggest difference is that Viola Davis's storyline revolves more around the A Story and not the B Story. Without having rewatched it recently, I don't recall Davis doing much more than taking care of that little girl, allowing herself to be interviewed, and encouraging the other "help" to come forward. But she is more central to the A Story and it's also her voice-over that roots us in the story.

After a quick glance online, I can only find one group that honored Viola Davis in supporting: The Indiana Film Critics Society.

I'm ultimately going to vote to keep her in lead because I think she stands out as a protagonist in contrast to the big ensemble and for the number of scenes without Emma Stone, but I'm interested in seeing other arguments.