Historian Richard Norton Smith used to be Bob Dole's speechwriter. He obviously has nothing but praise for the man but he shares an interesting insight. He said that at some point after the 1996 race, Dole confided to him that he felt like he never should have run, that '88 was his year.
https://www.c-span.org/video/?516476-10 ... les-legacy
Had Bob Dole not run in 1996, would Pat Buchanan have been the nominee? Ooof...
R.I.P. Bob Dole
Re: R.I.P. Bob Dole
"How's the despair?"
Re: R.I.P. Bob Dole
Sharing this everywhere.Mister Tee wrote
If you're looking for a counter to the general media narrative, here's someone who REALLY doesn't like Dole -- and comes armed with receipts.
It's telling that when I asked about Bob Dole's major legacy, I didn't really get any answer. Walter Mondale is generally regarded as a joke for his disastrous 1984 run but it's generally agreed upon that he was a remarkable Vice President who shaped the office. With Bob Dole, I don't hear much.
"How's the despair?"
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Mister Tee
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Re: R.I.P. Bob Dole
If you're looking for a counter to the general media narrative, here's someone who REALLY doesn't like Dole -- and comes armed with receipts.
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2021/12/dole
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2021/12/dole
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Big Magilla
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Re: R.I.P. Bob Dole
Never liked him in any of his guises.
He was a Trumper for sure, but he was one of the first to acknowledge that Trump lost to his "friend" Joe Biden which to me was too little, too late.
He was a Trumper for sure, but he was one of the first to acknowledge that Trump lost to his "friend" Joe Biden which to me was too little, too late.
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Mister Tee
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Re: R.I.P. Bob Dole
I've gone through many moods about Bob Dole over the years.
My first impression of him was, frankly, dreadful: he was running for his first re-election, in 1974, and was probably the first candidate to weaponize abortion in a campaign (it was the first post-Roe election). He hammered his opponent (a doctor) for performing abortions; ran ads with discarded fetuses. And it worked: he squeaked by to a 1-2 point victory (back in the days when Kansas was a competitive state).
My second impression was, if anything, worse: Gerald Ford, to placate conservatives who hated VP Nelson Rockefeller, tapped Dole as replacement on his re-elect ticket. Dole was by now widely considered a hatchet man, and he demonstrated why throughout the campaign, peaking in the moment during a debate with Mondale when he referred to World Wars I and II as "Democrat wars". Even George Will referred to it as the moment when the '76 campaign hit bottom.
I can't say I paid all that much attention to Dole over the succeeding decade, but he rose to great influence within the party structure, and, apparently, came to be known as someone with whom the opposite party could work -- he and McGovern together strengthened the food stamps program; he and Moynihan put so much legislation together that, when things bogged down in the Senate, his catchphrase was "Time for Moynihan/Dole?" He also, over this stretch, demonstrated he had a wickedly effective sense of humor -- sometimes very cutting, but offset by the fact he not infrequently aimed the barbs at himself; he couldn't resist a good joke, even at his own expense. These qualities made him, over time, an extremely popular guy in DC. All sorts of pundits suggested that a secret ballot of even Democrats in 1996 would have won him the presidency over Clinton.
But that, as Sabin notes, is the difference between how the Washington punditocracy sees America and the America that actually is. The pundits may well have been right about Dole's Beltway popularity (even Clinton said the hardest part of that campaign was pretending he didn't like Bob Dole), but that politician-with-swing-voter-appeal profile was way more popular at DC parties than in voting booths. Dole seemed a potentially strong candidate for the GOP nomination in 1988, but, after winning the Iowa caucus, he was annihilated by Bush in all the succeeding primaries. He did finally get the nomination in 1996, but it was a hopeless effort: Clinton was a popular incumbent with a blooming economy, and, as for that crossover appeal, most Dems saw Dole as a snarling guy who'd been trying to derail Clinton's agenda from moment one. The election was never close.
Some GOP strategist offered the withering assessment that Dole's problem was, his goal in life was to be the GOP nominee for president -- not caring enough about winning the presidency itself. In that sense, Sabin is right to see him as a relic: remnant of a time when parties nominated their war horses who'd shown loyalty over the years, rather than the new hot-shot. It takes something close to a miracle for such candidates to prevail -- Joe Biden is an obvious case, and look what it took to get him in there. It's fitting that Biden today offered way more of a salute to Dole's passing than Trump could ever muster -- despite the fact that Dole loudly endorsed Trump.
Oh, yeah: Dole endorsed Trump -- at a point where he'd have nothing to lose by coming out against him (likely wouldn't have had any effect, either). This is why, despite appreciating his sense of humor, and well aware of how admired he was among politicians of both parties, I couldn't ever quite fully warm up to Dole -- he was, in the end, too much of party man, even at a time when that party had become a truly destructive force. I certainly came to like him far more than I'd have imagined based on those early impressions. But a touch of the nasty man I saw in those early encounters lingers in my mind (and, in fact, feels like it was a forerunner of Trump himself). So, a rather muted farewell to a guy capable of big things, but too willing to settle for small to ever be a true giant.
My first impression of him was, frankly, dreadful: he was running for his first re-election, in 1974, and was probably the first candidate to weaponize abortion in a campaign (it was the first post-Roe election). He hammered his opponent (a doctor) for performing abortions; ran ads with discarded fetuses. And it worked: he squeaked by to a 1-2 point victory (back in the days when Kansas was a competitive state).
My second impression was, if anything, worse: Gerald Ford, to placate conservatives who hated VP Nelson Rockefeller, tapped Dole as replacement on his re-elect ticket. Dole was by now widely considered a hatchet man, and he demonstrated why throughout the campaign, peaking in the moment during a debate with Mondale when he referred to World Wars I and II as "Democrat wars". Even George Will referred to it as the moment when the '76 campaign hit bottom.
I can't say I paid all that much attention to Dole over the succeeding decade, but he rose to great influence within the party structure, and, apparently, came to be known as someone with whom the opposite party could work -- he and McGovern together strengthened the food stamps program; he and Moynihan put so much legislation together that, when things bogged down in the Senate, his catchphrase was "Time for Moynihan/Dole?" He also, over this stretch, demonstrated he had a wickedly effective sense of humor -- sometimes very cutting, but offset by the fact he not infrequently aimed the barbs at himself; he couldn't resist a good joke, even at his own expense. These qualities made him, over time, an extremely popular guy in DC. All sorts of pundits suggested that a secret ballot of even Democrats in 1996 would have won him the presidency over Clinton.
But that, as Sabin notes, is the difference between how the Washington punditocracy sees America and the America that actually is. The pundits may well have been right about Dole's Beltway popularity (even Clinton said the hardest part of that campaign was pretending he didn't like Bob Dole), but that politician-with-swing-voter-appeal profile was way more popular at DC parties than in voting booths. Dole seemed a potentially strong candidate for the GOP nomination in 1988, but, after winning the Iowa caucus, he was annihilated by Bush in all the succeeding primaries. He did finally get the nomination in 1996, but it was a hopeless effort: Clinton was a popular incumbent with a blooming economy, and, as for that crossover appeal, most Dems saw Dole as a snarling guy who'd been trying to derail Clinton's agenda from moment one. The election was never close.
Some GOP strategist offered the withering assessment that Dole's problem was, his goal in life was to be the GOP nominee for president -- not caring enough about winning the presidency itself. In that sense, Sabin is right to see him as a relic: remnant of a time when parties nominated their war horses who'd shown loyalty over the years, rather than the new hot-shot. It takes something close to a miracle for such candidates to prevail -- Joe Biden is an obvious case, and look what it took to get him in there. It's fitting that Biden today offered way more of a salute to Dole's passing than Trump could ever muster -- despite the fact that Dole loudly endorsed Trump.
Oh, yeah: Dole endorsed Trump -- at a point where he'd have nothing to lose by coming out against him (likely wouldn't have had any effect, either). This is why, despite appreciating his sense of humor, and well aware of how admired he was among politicians of both parties, I couldn't ever quite fully warm up to Dole -- he was, in the end, too much of party man, even at a time when that party had become a truly destructive force. I certainly came to like him far more than I'd have imagined based on those early impressions. But a touch of the nasty man I saw in those early encounters lingers in my mind (and, in fact, feels like it was a forerunner of Trump himself). So, a rather muted farewell to a guy capable of big things, but too willing to settle for small to ever be a true giant.
R.I.P. Bob Dole
I’d be interested in hearing from the older members of this board what Bob Dole’s legacy is because I’m drawing something of a blank. On the one hand, we're talking about a war hero and a "Lion of the Senate" (as the headlines read). But we're also talking about the only person in history who was nominated by his party as President and Vice President and lost both times, in addition to his other two failed runs for President. I guess his candidacy was the first time for me that the age question came about. There was also the notion that he had to lose to be liked (those consultants!). He's also someone who was openly critical of his party in his later years, saying it needed a sign that said "Closed for Repairs" and yet he was the only previous living Republican candidate to endorse Donald Trump. He was a party man.
But I guess if I had to pick his legacy it would be someone who ran for office when his time was already done. Bob Dole seemed to be a legislator who wasn't afraid to work across the aisle. Normally, these are the candidates that we often say would win in the general election if they could ever get past the primary. Well... that certainly didn't happen, did it? He was a lousy fit for the Gingrich-Limbaugh 90's which seemed to rise up in contrast to Republicans like Bob Dole, but I'm not sure if there was a time where his message of bipartisan conservatism would connect. Maybe Washington likes Lions of the Senate but the rest of America would prefer to vote against them.
But I'd be interested in knowing what others would say his big impact was if indeed he had one.
But I guess if I had to pick his legacy it would be someone who ran for office when his time was already done. Bob Dole seemed to be a legislator who wasn't afraid to work across the aisle. Normally, these are the candidates that we often say would win in the general election if they could ever get past the primary. Well... that certainly didn't happen, did it? He was a lousy fit for the Gingrich-Limbaugh 90's which seemed to rise up in contrast to Republicans like Bob Dole, but I'm not sure if there was a time where his message of bipartisan conservatism would connect. Maybe Washington likes Lions of the Senate but the rest of America would prefer to vote against them.
But I'd be interested in knowing what others would say his big impact was if indeed he had one.
"How's the despair?"