Obviously, these type of things are easier said than done. Of Moore's suggestions, maybe only #9 is economically sensible, but obviously, it would be politically difficult or impossible to implement. As for #3, U.S. passenger rail services have been nationalized for a long time already, so if the Federal Government really wanted to promote bullet trains, there is nothing standing in its way, as it can always buy ready-made technology from abroad.
In any case, the bottom line at the moment is that it was the free market which gave the competitive advantage to cheaper and more fuel-efficient Japanese cars, and the U.S. government which is using taxpayer money to subsidise one of the world's most infamously polluting industries.
Amusingly, Greg, this is pretty much what you suggested yourself some time ago, so who knows, maybe Moore is reading this message board...
New Developments III
Goodbye, GM ...
by Michael Moore
I write this on the morning of the end of the once-mighty General Motors. By high noon, the President of the United States will have made it official: General Motors, as we know it, has been totaled.
As I sit here in GM's birthplace, Flint, Michigan, I am surrounded by friends and family who are filled with anxiety about what will happen to them and to the town. Forty percent of the homes and businesses in the city have been abandoned. Imagine what it would be like if you lived in a city where almost every other house is empty. What would be your state of mind?
It is with sad irony that the company which invented "planned obsolescence" -- the decision to build cars that would fall apart after a few years so that the customer would then have to buy a new one -- has now made itself obsolete. It refused to build automobiles that the public wanted, cars that got great gas mileage, were as safe as they could be, and were exceedingly comfortable to drive. Oh -- and that wouldn't start falling apart after two years. GM stubbornly fought environmental and safety regulations. Its executives arrogantly ignored the "inferior" Japanese and German cars, cars which would become the gold standard for automobile buyers. And it was hell-bent on punishing its unionized workforce, lopping off thousands of workers for no good reason other than to "improve" the short-term bottom line of the corporation. Beginning in the 1980s, when GM was posting record profits, it moved countless jobs to Mexico and elsewhere, thus destroying the lives of tens of thousands of hard-working Americans. The glaring stupidity of this policy was that, when they eliminated the income of so many middle class families, who did they think was going to be able to afford to buy their cars? History will record this blunder in the same way it now writes about the French building the Maginot Line or how the Romans cluelessly poisoned their own water system with lethal lead in its pipes.
So here we are at the deathbed of General Motors. The company's body not yet cold, and I find myself filled with -- dare I say it -- joy. It is not the joy of revenge against a corporation that ruined my hometown and brought misery, divorce, alcoholism, homelessness, physical and mental debilitation, and drug addiction to the people I grew up with. Nor do I, obviously, claim any joy in knowing that 21,000 more GM workers will be told that they, too, are without a job.
But you and I and the rest of America now own a car company! I know, I know -- who on earth wants to run a car company? Who among us wants $50 billion of our tax dollars thrown down the rat hole of still trying to save GM? Let's be clear about this: The only way to save GM is to kill GM. Saving our precious industrial infrastructure, though, is another matter and must be a top priority. If we allow the shutting down and tearing down of our auto plants, we will sorely wish we still had them when we realize that those factories could have built the alternative energy systems we now desperately need. And when we realize that the best way to transport ourselves is on light rail and bullet trains and cleaner buses, how will we do this if we've allowed our industrial capacity and its skilled workforce to disappear?
Thus, as GM is "reorganized" by the federal government and the bankruptcy court, here is the plan I am asking President Obama to implement for the good of the workers, the GM communities, and the nation as a whole. Twenty years ago when I made "Roger & Me," I tried to warn people about what was ahead for General Motors. Had the power structure and the punditocracy listened, maybe much of this could have been avoided. Based on my track record, I request an honest and sincere consideration of the following suggestions:
1. Just as President Roosevelt did after the attack on Pearl Harbor, the President must tell the nation that we are at war and we must immediately convert our auto factories to factories that build mass transit vehicles and alternative energy devices. Within months in Flint in 1942, GM halted all car production and immediately used the assembly lines to build planes, tanks and machine guns. The conversion took no time at all. Everyone pitched in. The fascists were defeated.
We are now in a different kind of war -- a war that we have conducted against the ecosystem and has been conducted by our very own corporate leaders. This current war has two fronts. One is headquartered in Detroit. The products built in the factories of GM, Ford and Chrysler are some of the greatest weapons of mass destruction responsible for global warming and the melting of our polar icecaps. The things we call "cars" may have been fun to drive, but they are like a million daggers into the heart of Mother Nature. To continue to build them would only lead to the ruin of our species and much of the planet.
The other front in this war is being waged by the oil companies against you and me. They are committed to fleecing us whenever they can, and they have been reckless stewards of the finite amount of oil that is located under the surface of the earth. They know they are sucking it bone dry. And like the lumber tycoons of the early 20th century who didn't give a damn about future generations as they tore down every forest they could get their hands on, these oil barons are not telling the public what they know to be true -- that there are only a few more decades of useable oil on this planet. And as the end days of oil approach us, get ready for some very desperate people willing to kill and be killed just to get their hands on a gallon can of gasoline.
President Obama, now that he has taken control of GM, needs to convert the factories to new and needed uses immediately.
2. Don't put another $30 billion into the coffers of GM to build cars. Instead, use that money to keep the current workforce -- and most of those who have been laid off -- employed so that they can build the new modes of 21st century transportation. Let them start the conversion work now.
3. Announce that we will have bullet trains criss-crossing this country in the next five years. Japan is celebrating the 45th anniversary of its first bullet train this year. Now they have dozens of them. Average speed: 165 mph. Average time a train is late: under 30 seconds. They have had these high speed trains for nearly five decades -- and we don't even have one! The fact that the technology already exists for us to go from New York to L.A. in 17 hours by train, and that we haven't used it, is criminal. Let's hire the unemployed to build the new high speed lines all over the country. Chicago to Detroit in less than two hours. Miami to DC in under 7 hours. Denver to Dallas in five and a half. This can be done and done now.
4. Initiate a program to put light rail mass transit lines in all our large and medium-sized cities. Build those trains in the GM factories. And hire local people everywhere to install and run this system.
5. For people in rural areas not served by the train lines, have the GM plants produce energy efficient clean buses.
6. For the time being, have some factories build hybrid or all-electric cars (and batteries). It will take a few years for people to get used to the new ways to transport ourselves, so if we're going to have automobiles, let's have kinder, gentler ones. We can be building these next month (do not believe anyone who tells you it will take years to retool the factories -- that simply isn't true).
7. Transform some of the empty GM factories to facilities that build windmills, solar panels and other means of alternate forms of energy. We need tens of millions of solar panels right now. And there is an eager and skilled workforce who can build them.
8. Provide tax incentives for those who travel by hybrid car or bus or train. Also, credits for those who convert their home to alternative energy.
9. To help pay for this, impose a two-dollar tax on every gallon of gasoline. This will get people to switch to more energy saving cars or to use the new rail lines and rail cars the former autoworkers have built for them.
Well, that's a start. Please, please, please don't save GM so that a smaller version of it will simply do nothing more than build Chevys or Cadillacs. This is not a long-term solution. Don't throw bad money into a company whose tailpipe is malfunctioning, causing a strange odor to fill the car.
100 years ago this year, the founders of General Motors convinced the world to give up their horses and saddles and buggy whips to try a new form of transportation. Now it is time for us to say goodbye to the internal combustion engine. It seemed to serve us well for so long. We enjoyed the car hops at the A&W. We made out in the front -- and the back -- seat. We watched movies on large outdoor screens, went to the races at NASCAR tracks across the country, and saw the Pacific Ocean for the first time through the window down Hwy. 1. And now it's over. It's a new day and a new century. The President -- and the UAW -- must seize this moment and create a big batch of lemonade from this very sour and sad lemon.
Yesterday, the last surviving person from the Titanic disaster passed away. She escaped certain death that night and went on to live another 97 years.
So can we survive our own Titanic in all the Flint Michigans of this country. 60% of GM is ours. I think we can do a better job.
Yours,
Michael Moore
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php?id=248
by Michael Moore
I write this on the morning of the end of the once-mighty General Motors. By high noon, the President of the United States will have made it official: General Motors, as we know it, has been totaled.
As I sit here in GM's birthplace, Flint, Michigan, I am surrounded by friends and family who are filled with anxiety about what will happen to them and to the town. Forty percent of the homes and businesses in the city have been abandoned. Imagine what it would be like if you lived in a city where almost every other house is empty. What would be your state of mind?
It is with sad irony that the company which invented "planned obsolescence" -- the decision to build cars that would fall apart after a few years so that the customer would then have to buy a new one -- has now made itself obsolete. It refused to build automobiles that the public wanted, cars that got great gas mileage, were as safe as they could be, and were exceedingly comfortable to drive. Oh -- and that wouldn't start falling apart after two years. GM stubbornly fought environmental and safety regulations. Its executives arrogantly ignored the "inferior" Japanese and German cars, cars which would become the gold standard for automobile buyers. And it was hell-bent on punishing its unionized workforce, lopping off thousands of workers for no good reason other than to "improve" the short-term bottom line of the corporation. Beginning in the 1980s, when GM was posting record profits, it moved countless jobs to Mexico and elsewhere, thus destroying the lives of tens of thousands of hard-working Americans. The glaring stupidity of this policy was that, when they eliminated the income of so many middle class families, who did they think was going to be able to afford to buy their cars? History will record this blunder in the same way it now writes about the French building the Maginot Line or how the Romans cluelessly poisoned their own water system with lethal lead in its pipes.
So here we are at the deathbed of General Motors. The company's body not yet cold, and I find myself filled with -- dare I say it -- joy. It is not the joy of revenge against a corporation that ruined my hometown and brought misery, divorce, alcoholism, homelessness, physical and mental debilitation, and drug addiction to the people I grew up with. Nor do I, obviously, claim any joy in knowing that 21,000 more GM workers will be told that they, too, are without a job.
But you and I and the rest of America now own a car company! I know, I know -- who on earth wants to run a car company? Who among us wants $50 billion of our tax dollars thrown down the rat hole of still trying to save GM? Let's be clear about this: The only way to save GM is to kill GM. Saving our precious industrial infrastructure, though, is another matter and must be a top priority. If we allow the shutting down and tearing down of our auto plants, we will sorely wish we still had them when we realize that those factories could have built the alternative energy systems we now desperately need. And when we realize that the best way to transport ourselves is on light rail and bullet trains and cleaner buses, how will we do this if we've allowed our industrial capacity and its skilled workforce to disappear?
Thus, as GM is "reorganized" by the federal government and the bankruptcy court, here is the plan I am asking President Obama to implement for the good of the workers, the GM communities, and the nation as a whole. Twenty years ago when I made "Roger & Me," I tried to warn people about what was ahead for General Motors. Had the power structure and the punditocracy listened, maybe much of this could have been avoided. Based on my track record, I request an honest and sincere consideration of the following suggestions:
1. Just as President Roosevelt did after the attack on Pearl Harbor, the President must tell the nation that we are at war and we must immediately convert our auto factories to factories that build mass transit vehicles and alternative energy devices. Within months in Flint in 1942, GM halted all car production and immediately used the assembly lines to build planes, tanks and machine guns. The conversion took no time at all. Everyone pitched in. The fascists were defeated.
We are now in a different kind of war -- a war that we have conducted against the ecosystem and has been conducted by our very own corporate leaders. This current war has two fronts. One is headquartered in Detroit. The products built in the factories of GM, Ford and Chrysler are some of the greatest weapons of mass destruction responsible for global warming and the melting of our polar icecaps. The things we call "cars" may have been fun to drive, but they are like a million daggers into the heart of Mother Nature. To continue to build them would only lead to the ruin of our species and much of the planet.
The other front in this war is being waged by the oil companies against you and me. They are committed to fleecing us whenever they can, and they have been reckless stewards of the finite amount of oil that is located under the surface of the earth. They know they are sucking it bone dry. And like the lumber tycoons of the early 20th century who didn't give a damn about future generations as they tore down every forest they could get their hands on, these oil barons are not telling the public what they know to be true -- that there are only a few more decades of useable oil on this planet. And as the end days of oil approach us, get ready for some very desperate people willing to kill and be killed just to get their hands on a gallon can of gasoline.
President Obama, now that he has taken control of GM, needs to convert the factories to new and needed uses immediately.
2. Don't put another $30 billion into the coffers of GM to build cars. Instead, use that money to keep the current workforce -- and most of those who have been laid off -- employed so that they can build the new modes of 21st century transportation. Let them start the conversion work now.
3. Announce that we will have bullet trains criss-crossing this country in the next five years. Japan is celebrating the 45th anniversary of its first bullet train this year. Now they have dozens of them. Average speed: 165 mph. Average time a train is late: under 30 seconds. They have had these high speed trains for nearly five decades -- and we don't even have one! The fact that the technology already exists for us to go from New York to L.A. in 17 hours by train, and that we haven't used it, is criminal. Let's hire the unemployed to build the new high speed lines all over the country. Chicago to Detroit in less than two hours. Miami to DC in under 7 hours. Denver to Dallas in five and a half. This can be done and done now.
4. Initiate a program to put light rail mass transit lines in all our large and medium-sized cities. Build those trains in the GM factories. And hire local people everywhere to install and run this system.
5. For people in rural areas not served by the train lines, have the GM plants produce energy efficient clean buses.
6. For the time being, have some factories build hybrid or all-electric cars (and batteries). It will take a few years for people to get used to the new ways to transport ourselves, so if we're going to have automobiles, let's have kinder, gentler ones. We can be building these next month (do not believe anyone who tells you it will take years to retool the factories -- that simply isn't true).
7. Transform some of the empty GM factories to facilities that build windmills, solar panels and other means of alternate forms of energy. We need tens of millions of solar panels right now. And there is an eager and skilled workforce who can build them.
8. Provide tax incentives for those who travel by hybrid car or bus or train. Also, credits for those who convert their home to alternative energy.
9. To help pay for this, impose a two-dollar tax on every gallon of gasoline. This will get people to switch to more energy saving cars or to use the new rail lines and rail cars the former autoworkers have built for them.
Well, that's a start. Please, please, please don't save GM so that a smaller version of it will simply do nothing more than build Chevys or Cadillacs. This is not a long-term solution. Don't throw bad money into a company whose tailpipe is malfunctioning, causing a strange odor to fill the car.
100 years ago this year, the founders of General Motors convinced the world to give up their horses and saddles and buggy whips to try a new form of transportation. Now it is time for us to say goodbye to the internal combustion engine. It seemed to serve us well for so long. We enjoyed the car hops at the A&W. We made out in the front -- and the back -- seat. We watched movies on large outdoor screens, went to the races at NASCAR tracks across the country, and saw the Pacific Ocean for the first time through the window down Hwy. 1. And now it's over. It's a new day and a new century. The President -- and the UAW -- must seize this moment and create a big batch of lemonade from this very sour and sad lemon.
Yesterday, the last surviving person from the Titanic disaster passed away. She escaped certain death that night and went on to live another 97 years.
So can we survive our own Titanic in all the Flint Michigans of this country. 60% of GM is ours. I think we can do a better job.
Yours,
Michael Moore
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php?id=248
It appears that General Motors will now basically become Government Motors, as it looks like the federal government will be running it. Considering the current state of the economy, this is probalby the best thing that could happen.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/27/business/27auto.html?_r=1&hp
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/27/business/27auto.html?_r=1&hp
Hillary and McCain loudly and agressively made the same argument Steele is making and we see how well that worked.
The great thing in the world is not so much where we stand, as in what direction we are moving. It's faith in something and enthusiasm for something that makes a life worth living. Oliver Wendell Holmes
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OscarGuy
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I hope there's strong backlash on this one. Just b/c Steele's black does not give him the right to say what he has said. And who said what it takes to vet a candidate? Obviously the voters of Illnois vetted him and liked him well enough to elect him. And obviously American saw enough in him to elect him president even with a minimal bit of experience in D.C. And what of all the community outreach work Obama did before becoming a politician? Must not be considered part of the vetting process...but to turn the question around, was Steele really vetted by the NRC or was he selected because he was black? I wonder what the answer to that is...
(CNN) — Days after announcing an "aggressive new approach" in confronting President Obama, Republican National Committee Chairman Michael Steele said Friday that the president hadn't been properly vetted because he is black.
"The problem that we have with this president is we don't know him. He was not vetted, folks. He came out of nowhere," Steele told listeners to Bill Bennett's radio show Friday morning. "….We don't know his political background, we don't know his political philosophy, the ideology that shapes his thinking on policy.
Steele: Obama wasn't vetted because he's black
Posted: 02:16 PM ET
From CNN Political Producer Rebecca Sinderbrand
"He was not vetted, because the press fell in love with the black man running for the office. 'Oh gee, wouldn't it be neat to do that? Gee, wouldn't it make all of our liberal guilt just go away? We could continue to ride around in our limousines and feel so lucky be alive and in an America with a black president,'" said Steele. "Okay, that's wonderful — great scenario, nice backdrop. But what does he stand for? What does he believe?
(CNN) — Days after announcing an "aggressive new approach" in confronting President Obama, Republican National Committee Chairman Michael Steele said Friday that the president hadn't been properly vetted because he is black.
"The problem that we have with this president is we don't know him. He was not vetted, folks. He came out of nowhere," Steele told listeners to Bill Bennett's radio show Friday morning. "….We don't know his political background, we don't know his political philosophy, the ideology that shapes his thinking on policy.
Steele: Obama wasn't vetted because he's black
Posted: 02:16 PM ET
From CNN Political Producer Rebecca Sinderbrand
"He was not vetted, because the press fell in love with the black man running for the office. 'Oh gee, wouldn't it be neat to do that? Gee, wouldn't it make all of our liberal guilt just go away? We could continue to ride around in our limousines and feel so lucky be alive and in an America with a black president,'" said Steele. "Okay, that's wonderful — great scenario, nice backdrop. But what does he stand for? What does he believe?
Wesley Lovell
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
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OscarGuy
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This is rather amusing:
Dems hire speed reader for climate change bill
Posted: 09:19 PM ET
From CNN Associate Producer Martina Stewart
WASHINGTON (CNN) – As Congress prepares for a weeklong recess next week, Democrats on the House Energy and Commerce Committee have armed themselves with a special weapon to deal with a possible Republican effort to delay getting a major piece of legislation out of committee by Memorial Day.
Democrats on the committee have hired a speed reader to read the more than 900-page climate change bill if necessary.
A request to have the entire bill read aloud is a prerogative Republicans have a right to invoke which could be used to frustrate Committee Chairman Henry Waxman's deadline of Memorial Day to get the committee's work on the bill done.
Even with the use of the speed reader, reading the entire bill could take the equivalent of more than a full work day of time.
–CNN Congressional Producer Deirdre Walsh contributed to this report.
Dems hire speed reader for climate change bill
Posted: 09:19 PM ET
From CNN Associate Producer Martina Stewart
WASHINGTON (CNN) – As Congress prepares for a weeklong recess next week, Democrats on the House Energy and Commerce Committee have armed themselves with a special weapon to deal with a possible Republican effort to delay getting a major piece of legislation out of committee by Memorial Day.
Democrats on the committee have hired a speed reader to read the more than 900-page climate change bill if necessary.
A request to have the entire bill read aloud is a prerogative Republicans have a right to invoke which could be used to frustrate Committee Chairman Henry Waxman's deadline of Memorial Day to get the committee's work on the bill done.
Even with the use of the speed reader, reading the entire bill could take the equivalent of more than a full work day of time.
–CNN Congressional Producer Deirdre Walsh contributed to this report.
Wesley Lovell
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
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Sonic Youth
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Mister Tee
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A year or two back, those of us on the liberal side were asked if there were Republicans we genuinely liked even if we disagreed with their politics. I don't remember if Jack Kemp was on my list, but if he wasn't, he should have been.
Kemp is widely hailed as a Republican truly committed to civil rights -- the famous saying about the old quarterback was, "Kemp has showered with more black people than most Republicans have ever met". He also seemed to be without any serious mean streak toward anyone. I profoundly disagreed with his political and especially economic philosophy, but I have no doubt he sincerely thought that wacky supply-side theory was a way to make a better, more fair society. It wasn't dsiguised greed for him.
Even better, he was willing to argue for it without resorting to name-calling -- a trait many in his party could stand to emulate. When he was Dole's running mate in '96, and the Limbaugh right was screaming for Bob to go all Paula Jones all the time against Clinton, Kemp said it would be beneath Dole to run such a campaign. I can't imagine he'd have been very enamored of the Palin rallies last Fall. He believed in straight-up political debate, best ideas winning. And he was gracious enough he wrote a very admiring piece on Obama's election, saying while he disagreed profoundly with his proposed policies, he could appreciate what an extraordinary moment it was for the country to elect a black man president.
So, a heartfelt rest in peace to Jack Kemp -- the kind of guy either party could use more of.
Kemp is widely hailed as a Republican truly committed to civil rights -- the famous saying about the old quarterback was, "Kemp has showered with more black people than most Republicans have ever met". He also seemed to be without any serious mean streak toward anyone. I profoundly disagreed with his political and especially economic philosophy, but I have no doubt he sincerely thought that wacky supply-side theory was a way to make a better, more fair society. It wasn't dsiguised greed for him.
Even better, he was willing to argue for it without resorting to name-calling -- a trait many in his party could stand to emulate. When he was Dole's running mate in '96, and the Limbaugh right was screaming for Bob to go all Paula Jones all the time against Clinton, Kemp said it would be beneath Dole to run such a campaign. I can't imagine he'd have been very enamored of the Palin rallies last Fall. He believed in straight-up political debate, best ideas winning. And he was gracious enough he wrote a very admiring piece on Obama's election, saying while he disagreed profoundly with his proposed policies, he could appreciate what an extraordinary moment it was for the country to elect a black man president.
So, a heartfelt rest in peace to Jack Kemp -- the kind of guy either party could use more of.
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Mister Tee
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Since it happened during the Board's downtime, the Airplane Panic Over Lower Manhattan went uncommented on here, so let me just throw in a quick take from one who sort-of experienced it:
I got off the PATH at Jersey City just after 10, apparently moments after the plane had flown off. It was clear something was amiss, as all kinds of people were milling around, looking at the sky. The woman I asked to fill me in said the plane was "so close I could read the number on it...and I'm half-blind". (When I heard later reports it was Air Force One, I thought she must have been lying on this, but I guess there are several potential AF1's, with standard airplane numbers on them, and the only thing that makes them the genuine Air Foce One is the president being on-board)
Anyway, people were streaming out of buildings. I caught up with someone from my office, who said there was some murmur it was safe to stay in the building, but the (rightful) response from everyone was, That's what they told people in the Twin Towers. It was about 11 before everyone really became convinced it was no big deal; even then, some decided the day had bad karma on it and the best move was to go home.
I just can't believe anyone would have failed to realize that 1) two fighter jets escorting a large plane would look like two fighter jets PURSUING a large plane and 2) this would unquestionably touch off the primal fear of anyone who was in Manhattan that fateful day.
I got off the PATH at Jersey City just after 10, apparently moments after the plane had flown off. It was clear something was amiss, as all kinds of people were milling around, looking at the sky. The woman I asked to fill me in said the plane was "so close I could read the number on it...and I'm half-blind". (When I heard later reports it was Air Force One, I thought she must have been lying on this, but I guess there are several potential AF1's, with standard airplane numbers on them, and the only thing that makes them the genuine Air Foce One is the president being on-board)
Anyway, people were streaming out of buildings. I caught up with someone from my office, who said there was some murmur it was safe to stay in the building, but the (rightful) response from everyone was, That's what they told people in the Twin Towers. It was about 11 before everyone really became convinced it was no big deal; even then, some decided the day had bad karma on it and the best move was to go home.
I just can't believe anyone would have failed to realize that 1) two fighter jets escorting a large plane would look like two fighter jets PURSUING a large plane and 2) this would unquestionably touch off the primal fear of anyone who was in Manhattan that fateful day.
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OscarGuy
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From CNN:
Transgender murder trial: Hate crime charge may be a first
Posted: 09:14 AM ET
GREELEY, Colorado–The murder trial of Allen Andrade, underway in Greeley, Colorado, is being watched closely across the country. Andrade is accused of bludgeoning to death Angie Zapata, a transgender female, last July.
Justin “Angie” Zapata was killed by a man she met over the Internet during the summer of 2008.
Since the defense concedes Andrade is the killer, the question at trial is what level of homicide it is: first-degree murder or some lesser degree. The defense says Andrade killed Zapata in rage after learning that the woman he was with was biologically male. The prosecution says Andrade knew for at least 36 hours before the murder that Zapata was born a male, which supports their theory of a premeditated murder—not an uncontrollable rage.
Andrade is charged not only with murder, but with a bias-motivated crime. Though bias-motivated crime is a lower felony than murder, the charge is significant for this is believed to be one of the first cases to charge a hate crime where the victim is a transgender person.
Angie Zapata, born Justin, started living as a female about three years before she died. She and Andrade met on a social networking website and, after some days of online communications, they decided to meet in person. On July 14, 2008, Zapata drove more than 50 miles to pick up Andrade and bring him to her Greeley, CO apartment. They spent the next few days together.
In opening statements Thursday, the jury of 10 men and four women learned from prosecutor Brandi Nieto that Andrade accompanied Zapata to Greeley municipal court on July 15 to answer a traffic ticket. The ticket was issued in the name of Justin Zapata. That, according to the State, is when Andrade knew, if he didn’t know it earlier, that Zapata was biologically a male. Although the jury has yet to hear the coroner’s estimate of time of death, it appears that Zapata was killed in the early hours of July 17—long after the court appearance.
In his opening statements, defense attorney Bradley Martin emphasized that this is not a case about lifestyle and right or wrong; that it’s a case about Zapata’s deceit. The hate crimes statute protects transgender people. Yet, it appears the defense wants to use that protected class status to justify a conviction of something less than first-degree murder.
Nine witnesses have testified so far, including the first officers and paramedic on the scene, neighbors who saw Zapata the night before her murder, and the officers who arrested Andrade two weeks later. The trial is expected to last through next week.
Stay tuned to In Session as I bring you all the latest details from inside the courtroom.
Transgender murder trial: Hate crime charge may be a first
Posted: 09:14 AM ET
GREELEY, Colorado–The murder trial of Allen Andrade, underway in Greeley, Colorado, is being watched closely across the country. Andrade is accused of bludgeoning to death Angie Zapata, a transgender female, last July.
Justin “Angie” Zapata was killed by a man she met over the Internet during the summer of 2008.
Since the defense concedes Andrade is the killer, the question at trial is what level of homicide it is: first-degree murder or some lesser degree. The defense says Andrade killed Zapata in rage after learning that the woman he was with was biologically male. The prosecution says Andrade knew for at least 36 hours before the murder that Zapata was born a male, which supports their theory of a premeditated murder—not an uncontrollable rage.
Andrade is charged not only with murder, but with a bias-motivated crime. Though bias-motivated crime is a lower felony than murder, the charge is significant for this is believed to be one of the first cases to charge a hate crime where the victim is a transgender person.
Angie Zapata, born Justin, started living as a female about three years before she died. She and Andrade met on a social networking website and, after some days of online communications, they decided to meet in person. On July 14, 2008, Zapata drove more than 50 miles to pick up Andrade and bring him to her Greeley, CO apartment. They spent the next few days together.
In opening statements Thursday, the jury of 10 men and four women learned from prosecutor Brandi Nieto that Andrade accompanied Zapata to Greeley municipal court on July 15 to answer a traffic ticket. The ticket was issued in the name of Justin Zapata. That, according to the State, is when Andrade knew, if he didn’t know it earlier, that Zapata was biologically a male. Although the jury has yet to hear the coroner’s estimate of time of death, it appears that Zapata was killed in the early hours of July 17—long after the court appearance.
In his opening statements, defense attorney Bradley Martin emphasized that this is not a case about lifestyle and right or wrong; that it’s a case about Zapata’s deceit. The hate crimes statute protects transgender people. Yet, it appears the defense wants to use that protected class status to justify a conviction of something less than first-degree murder.
Nine witnesses have testified so far, including the first officers and paramedic on the scene, neighbors who saw Zapata the night before her murder, and the officers who arrested Andrade two weeks later. The trial is expected to last through next week.
Stay tuned to In Session as I bring you all the latest details from inside the courtroom.
Wesley Lovell
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
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OscarGuy
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This was in our local paper's opinions section...some people are just stupid...
If the members of Congress think that it will be easy street for them with this type of government that is being pursued, they have only to look at history of nations that have given up their democracy.
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In the last election we voted for change, but not a demolition of our republic and for what it stands. So let's get back to the Constitution as a guideline, and stop rewarding people who seem to not realize they owe taxes just like other citizens. If paying personal income tax is too painful there is the "Fair Tax" which would make everyone equal - if they buy, they pay tax. No chance to forget to pay.
The TV has been alive with the speeches our president has been making while over seas in the G20 meeting. It is beyond the ability of my brain to have a president of ours to lie about our country, and to apologize for things we were supposed to have done, like being their enemy in the past, when in fact we have given millions of dollars to help free the starving populations, when in fact the rulers of these starving people were in fact intercepting the food and selling it to the few who could afford the price.
It would be nice to see our elected officials in Washington to be "Americans" instead of Democrats and Republicans. It is time for the people elected to Washington to respond to the wishes of the people back home. There is a scary movement being formed now being called, "The Tea Party." T his seems to have a widespread following throughout the entire country.
We do need to get the message to our president that all these lies he is telling about the USA have got to stop.
There will be another election in 2010 and if things don't straighten up it seems very likely that a lot of new faces will be in D.C.
If the members of Congress think that it will be easy street for them with this type of government that is being pursued, they have only to look at history of nations that have given up their democracy.
Advertisement
In the last election we voted for change, but not a demolition of our republic and for what it stands. So let's get back to the Constitution as a guideline, and stop rewarding people who seem to not realize they owe taxes just like other citizens. If paying personal income tax is too painful there is the "Fair Tax" which would make everyone equal - if they buy, they pay tax. No chance to forget to pay.
The TV has been alive with the speeches our president has been making while over seas in the G20 meeting. It is beyond the ability of my brain to have a president of ours to lie about our country, and to apologize for things we were supposed to have done, like being their enemy in the past, when in fact we have given millions of dollars to help free the starving populations, when in fact the rulers of these starving people were in fact intercepting the food and selling it to the few who could afford the price.
It would be nice to see our elected officials in Washington to be "Americans" instead of Democrats and Republicans. It is time for the people elected to Washington to respond to the wishes of the people back home. There is a scary movement being formed now being called, "The Tea Party." T his seems to have a widespread following throughout the entire country.
We do need to get the message to our president that all these lies he is telling about the USA have got to stop.
There will be another election in 2010 and if things don't straighten up it seems very likely that a lot of new faces will be in D.C.
Wesley Lovell
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
-
OscarGuy
- Site Admin
- Posts: 13668
- Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 12:22 am
- Location: Springfield, MO
- Contact:
Here's an interesting article discussing the Columbine shooting and the misconceptions and myths surrounding it.
http://www.usatoday.com/news....oorefer
The one thing I'm beginning to think, at least from this article is that Klebold may have gone along with Harris' plan because he was infatuated with him emotionally. Purely conjecture on my part, though.
http://www.usatoday.com/news....oorefer
The one thing I'm beginning to think, at least from this article is that Klebold may have gone along with Harris' plan because he was infatuated with him emotionally. Purely conjecture on my part, though.
Wesley Lovell
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin