Campaign 2020

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OscarGuy
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Re: Campaign 2020

Post by OscarGuy »

It won't. He has the Fox News demo sewn up because it won't get coverage there.
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Re: Campaign 2020

Post by Big Magilla »

If this gets enough coverage it could erode a sizeable portion of Trumps' base like nothing else has yet.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... rs/615997/
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Re: Campaign 2020

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OscarGuy wrote
What does it really matter who two representatives endorse when it was a senate primary? Further, Markey was a multi-term incumbent who had wide name recognition and a strong liberal track record. Kennedy has almost no track record and was trying to sell voters on his name. He should have held off hoping that President Biden would appoint Elizabeth Warren to a cabinet position and then run for her seat. It would have worked out much better for him and would have returned that seat to the Kennedy family. Now he just looks like a loser with no political future. Of course he could go for the MA governorship, but what does he really think he can do?
1. What does it really matter who two representatives endorse when it was a senate primary?
It matters when Nancy Pelosi spends two years equating primaries to divisiveness, and then endorses a primary challenger. It's terrible optics and makes her look like a hypocrite. Clearly, Massachusetts thought so because Kennedy's lead collapsed within a week or two of the endorsement. I'm sure there are other reasons as well but it certainly contributed.

2. Kennedy has almost no track record and was trying to sell voters on his name.
He's the first Kennedy to lose an election in Massachusetts. The Kennedy name isn't nothing.

3. He should have held off hoping that President Biden would appoint Elizabeth Warren to a cabinet position and then run for her seat.
Well, I seriously doubt that is going to happen. I have no idea what conversations happened behind closed doors but I would imagine that one reason why he ran was Warren wanted Ayanna Pressley to have her seat. So, it's either run against Markey now or do it in six years.

I'm a little torn. Markey is 74. He's got two terms in him maybe. Kennedy has decades. That being said, our future doesn't depend on there being more Kennedy's and Markey's underdog victory feels very satisfying.
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Re: Campaign 2020

Post by OscarGuy »

What does it really matter who two representatives endorse when it was a senate primary? Further, Markey was a multi-term incumbent who had wide name recognition and a strong liberal track record. Kennedy has almost no track record and was trying to sell voters on his name. He should have held off hoping that President Biden would appoint Elizabeth Warren to a cabinet position and then run for her seat. It would have worked out much better for him and would have returned that seat to the Kennedy family. Now he just looks like a loser with no political future. Of course he could go for the MA governorship, but what does he really think he can do?
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Re: Campaign 2020

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Sonic Youth wrote
Someone just wrote this on my Facebook page:

"Markey won. Kennedy is a far left politician like Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders. You CANNOT fight the far right with far left ideologies. Bipartisan legislation is long-lasting and helps lead to more Bipartisan legislation and Washington becomes a productive governing body again. Yes, Markey is liberal but Kennedy and Warren are part of the problem in Washington. The democrats need moderate candidates."
What is this person's political ideology and what news do they watch? How did they come to this conclusion?

Big Magilla wrote
I wonder how many voters pay attention to endorsements or to candidates in the news in general.
Before 2020, not much usually. Although more so in 2020 than in any race of my life, which generally contrasted how a President Biden would govern vs. how a President Sanders wouldn't.

I don't know what happened behind closed doors. I don't know if this was Pelosi's attempt to get back at AOC or if the ball was entirely in Kennedy's court to leave his seat while he was hot. But Nancy Pelosi is having a very foolish couple of weeks. Her endorsement of Kennedy was the anti-Clyburn.
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Re: Campaign 2020

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I wonder how many voters pay attention to endorsements or to candidates in the news in general.

I haven't been following this race at all but in the last few days as it seeped into the national news, I watched the two candidates in debate. Markey seemed strong while Kennedy looked like a deer caught in the headlights. Since the mid-50s, as exemplified in the 1960 presidential race, it's been more about who looks the best on TV than who will do the best job. Doddering Reagan won reelection with a simple line that any old ham actor could have learned in a nanosecond - "there you go again!"
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Re: Campaign 2020

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My point was, he thinks the candidate who was endorsed by Nancy Pelosi has far-left ideologies while the candidate who was endoresed by Ocasio-Cortez is a bipartisan moderate.
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Re: Campaign 2020

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Someone should tell him about Emanuel Cleaver and the numerous other moderate candidates that got dropped by their constituents this year.
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Re: Campaign 2020

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Someone just wrote this on my Facebook page:

"Markey won. Kennedy is a far left politician like Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders. You CANNOT fight the far right with far left ideologies. Bipartisan legislation is long-lasting and helps lead to more Bipartisan legislation and Washington becomes a productive governing body again. Yes, Markey is liberal but Kennedy and Warren are part of the problem in Washington. The democrats need moderate candidates."

My tongue's bleeding from how hard I'm biting it.
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Re: Campaign 2020

Post by Sabin »

@realDonaldTrump
It never ends! Now they are trying to say that your favorite President, me, went to Walter Reed Medical Center, having suffered a series of mini-strokes. Never happened to THIS candidate - FAKE NEWS. Perhaps they are referring to another candidate from another Party!

@maggieNYT
So the president is denying something that no one has actually reported - that he had a series of mini-strokes.

... So, the President has been having a series of mini-strokes?
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Re: Campaign 2020

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Sabin wrote: This is what I was responding to:
Big Magilla wrote
The Dems will either remain moderate or go progressive in which case they will be trounced again because the majority of American voters have their heads in the sand.
My point was only this: if this is the second election cycle then you might have to entertain the idea that you might be wrong about what is or isn't electable in this country vs. already saying "if we go progressive we are guaranteed to lose." To be fair, we all will.
No, what I was saying is that if we lose because a sizeable group of progressives sat on their hands instead of supporting Biden, the majority of the party will not support them. If, however, the progressive turnout is strong and we lose for some other reason, e.g. Trump's dirty tricks, then anything is possible. If he wins and the Republicans retain the Senate and win back the House, we're all doomed. On the other hand, if Biden is elected, then we all have a chance.
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Re: Campaign 2020

Post by Sabin »

Big Magilla wrote
Sabin wrote
What you're saying is if Joe Biden loses in 2020, then we have to make sure we DON'T pick a more progressive candidate, because if we do... we might lose.
No, what I was saying is that that is what the electorate will do, especially if the perception is that the absence of progressive votes sunk the election for Biden. Hopefully that won't happen.
What I was responding to was this:
Big Magilla wrote
The Dems will either remain moderate or go progressive in which case they will be trounced again because the majority of American voters have their heads in the sand.
My point was only this: if this is the second election cycle then you might have to entertain the idea that you might be wrong about what is or isn't electable in this country vs. already saying "if we go progressive we are guaranteed to lose." To be fair, we all will.


Big Magilla wrote
Sabin wrote
Despite my concerns that Trump might have had a more successful convention than the Democrats, I remain fairly steadfast in my opinion that it's hard to make the case that Joe Biden isn't probably going to be the next President.
How in hell was that Trump family and sycophants shit show more successful than the Democrats' convention? Not in content, and not in ratings. It got higher ratings on Fox, but lower ratings overall. Most of the country has his number by now, but that doesn't mean he won't win.
Uh, sure! I'll give you my wrap-up because I watched every night of both of them...

I don't really trust ratings because at this point we're all watching these things on so many different platforms that it's hard to tell who is seeing what.

I guess I should preface this by saying that we are so polarized that I have no idea who is helped by what anymore. We have social unrest in the streets. That should hurt Trump. And I think it did. But now I'm wondering if it helps him. I don't know. I really don't. But the reason I think the RNC might (again, I'm 51% sure it was more effective) be more effective is this: I thought that the idea of tying Joe Biden to the "Radical Left" was foolish and impossible. I was wrong. I think for some people they've done it. And that's remarkable to me. I wish Joe Biden was a puppet of the radical left.

I could go on about what each convention did that the other didn't but in general I think it was harder to make that case than the Democrat's case of going all in on Coronavirus, all in on Trump is mean, and all in on Biden is nice.
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Re: Campaign 2020

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Sabin wrote:What you're saying is if Joe Biden loses in 2020, then we have to make sure we DON'T pick a more progressive candidate, because if we do... we might lose.
No, what I was saying is that that is what the electorate will do, especially if the perception is that the absence of progressive votes sunk the election for Biden. Hopefully that won't happen.
Sabin wrote:Despite my concerns that Trump might have had a more successful convention than the Democrats, I remain fairly steadfast in my opinion that it's hard to make the case that Joe Biden isn't probably going to be the next President.
How in hell was that Trump family and sycophants shit show more successful than the Democrats' convention? Not in content, and not in ratings. It got higher ratings on Fox, but lower ratings overall. Most of the country has his number by now, but that doesn't mean he won't win.
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Re: Campaign 2020

Post by Sabin »

Big Magilla wrote
Exactly what it says. If Trump wins, 2024 will be another 2020, albeit hopefully without a pandemic to add to the strife. The Republicans will either go for another Trump or move closer to the center. The Dems will either remain moderate or go progressive in which case they will be trounced again because the majority of American voters have their heads in the sand.
Okay...

Despite my concerns that Trump might have had a more successful convention than the Democrats, I remain fairly steadfast in my opinion that it's hard to make the case that Joe Biden isn't probably going to be the next President, so I don't want to get stuck in a conversation pre-gaming an alternate reality 2024 but...

What you're saying is if Joe Biden loses in 2020, then we have to make sure we DON'T pick a more progressive candidate, because if we do... we might lose?

You realize how ridiculous this sounds being told this after two election cycles? Even if you are correct, and certainly, yes, it makes sense to go with the strategy that results in a popular vote victory each time because it's just fundamentally more likely to result in an electoral vote victory, but if Joe Biden loses, then everyone who continues to recommend candidates like Joe Biden (and Hillary Clinton) needs to take a moment to reflect truly on what's going on with this country before making any more predictions again.
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Re: Campaign 2020

Post by Big Magilla »

Okri wrote:
Big Magilla wrote:All true, but what the "all or noting" progressives don't see is that if Trump gets another term it will be worse than four more years of the same after which the country will not suddenly wake up and elect their guys. We're at the crossroads. It's good vs. evil with no room for sitting on the sidelines. A non-vote or vote for anyone other than Biden is a vote for Trump.
Who do you mean here?
Exactly what it says. If Trump wins, 2024 will be another 2020, albeit hopefully without a pandemic to add to the strife. The Republicans will either go for another Trump or move closer to the center. The Dems will either remain moderate or go progressive in which case they will be trounced again because the majority of American voters have their heads in the sand. They are afraid of change. The way for progressive ideas to take hold is to put them in place, not just talk about them. That means that if elected, Biden and Harris must move quickly while they have the power to overturn all the garbage laws the Republican congress under Trump pushed through and then impose more progressive laws on the populace. Only when the vast majority sees that they work to their benefit will they embrace them and we will move forward until the next conservative pullback takes hold in sixty years or so.
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