Judas and the Black Messiah

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Mister Tee
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Re: Judas and the Black Messiah

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Big Magilla wrote:Anyone who thinks that Ethan Hawke, James McAvoy and Casey Affleck were the true leads in Training Day, The Last King of Scotland and The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford were the dominant leads in those and the showier Denzel Washington, Forest Whitaker and Brad Pitt would have more fairly been considered in support, should be rejoicing over the placement of Stanfield and Kaluuya in their respective categories.
Of those three, the only one I thought was the True Lead of his film was McAvoy -- and even there, I could accept the idea that Whitaker's Amin was so dominant a presence, he wasn't indefensible as lead. The problem with those other cases is not that Washington and Pitt shouldn't have been considered leads, but that it was ridiculous to nominate Hawke or Affleck in support, when they were without question co-leads. I'm baffled why you'd expect me to toss my hat in the air over what's to me a similar case of category fraud: Kaluuya being nominated in support, when he's clear co-lead, is laughable. I very much disagree that the film is Stanfield's story. The only argument for that is the maybe ten-minute stretch where Fred goes to jail and is off-screen. But this is offset by many scenes centered on Fred, with his girlfriend or the grieving mother, that have nothing to do with O'Neal's journey. This movie, as per the title, is about both characters, and they should both be contending for lead actor nominations. (The one who gets screwed by this is Jesse Plemons, who gives a truly fascinating, dimensional supporting performance that will now go unnoted.)

It happens, I've read that the initial cut of the film was more centered on O'Neal, but that several of the invited audience felt they needed Fred to be more co-equal a character, resulting in the recut version we see. So, it's possible the Oscar campaign was based on a version of the movie that no longer exists. (Just as, long ago, Diane Keaton might have been a supporting actress contender for the lengthy Anhedonia, but was clear lead in the heavily-edited Annie Hall.)

To get to the movie: I've been pretty cranky about most things I've seen this year (and, even here, I was aggravated I had to watch on TV -- as the film progressed, I got more and more frustrated I couldn't experience it in the more tunnel-vision format of a theatre). But I have to say this is the strongest, least-disappointing thing I've seen this year: a powerful drama with an unsparing point of view, well-written (and often surprising) scenes, and towering performances. Stanfield is a major actor, and he makes O'Neal a fascinatingly opaque figure -- I think he's probably honest in his early scene with Plemmons when he says he hasn't much thought about things like the King assassination, and it's fascinating to watch such a previously apolitical character both play-act revolutionary fervor and, in some ways, become wrapped up in it. His plight is painful to watch, even while we're disdaining him for his clear treachery. It's a great role for him, and he totally pulls it off.

When Stanfield was cast, he likely thought it was going to be his star-making role. But he may not have reckoned on Kaluuya showing up and, in many ways, blowing him off the screen. I've liked Kaluuya's prior work, but this is a level above -- exuding charisma and oratorical fervor, yet also displaying tenderness, slyness, and humor in the many scenes that flesh the character out. I didn't know much about Fred Hampton beyond the fact that he was murdered by authorities (the case was a major cause celebre while I was in college at NU); based on his film, he may have indeed been the formidable possible leader J. Edgar Hoover feared. If nothing else, the film enshrines his memory in a clear-eyed but celebratory way. And Kaluuya's performance is the best I've seen so far this year.

I will never not hate those "and here are the real-life people" epilogues, but I have to say it was fascinating watching the actual O'Neal squirm under that final interview. Had he really managed to stay in denial that long?
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Re: Judas and the Black Messiah

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Big Magilla wrote
This is the opposite of the situation in which category fraud complainers usually find themselves. Anyone who thinks that Ethan Hawke, James McAvoy and Casey Affleck were the true leads in Training Day, The Last King of Scotland and The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford were the dominant leads in those and the showier Denzel Washington, Forest Whitaker and Russell Crowe would have more fairly been considered in support, should be rejoicing over the placement of Stanfield and Kaluuya in their respective categories.
Yes. Usually, we would be talking about category fraud in the opposite way. Co-leads would be appropriate.

The first thing that jumps out to me about this film is what a satisfying, entertaining production. Yes, it’s a necessary piece of history and despite the era that we live in I'm pretty astonished that Warner Bros. greenlit a film that leads to the conclusion: fuck all pigs. But the look, the sound, the pace... better than movies of twice its budget. Nominations wouldn't be undeserved in every single below-the-line category. The script isn't anything revolutionary but we get plenty of different angles of conflict within the black liberation movement (how they treat women, white people, other factions, infiltration) without sacrificing any of its pace. I could definitely see it working as a miniseries but I'm really glad that we get it as one movie, demonstrating that two hours is all you need. My biggest problem with the film is that Fred and Bill don't have necessary interactions so it isn't quite as personally wrenching as it should be. I don't know if this was done on the part of the filmmakers to stay truthful and not embellish but its absence is a big missed opportunity.

Thankfully the performances make up for it. It's a very well-cast film. Lakeith Stanfield continues his run of interesting projects and adding new layers to his low-key persona. Judas might find the best dramatic use for him to date in a lead role. Jesse Plemons (another fascinating actor) is also put to good use as his FBI handler. He's very good at playing Midwestern-looking types with slightly off undercurrents. Daniel Kaluuya's cadence sounds more exaggerated than any Southside Chicago accent I've ever heard but it really works. His love interest calls him a poet early in the film and I think that's how Kaluuya plays it. This is across the board very good.

Also, can somebody tell me if the music that they use between Fred and his girlfriend is the music between Miles and Maya in Sideways?
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Re: Judas and the Black Messiah

Post by Big Magilla »

HarryGoldfarb wrote:
Big Magilla wrote: Anyone who thinks that Ethan Hawke, James McAvoy and Casey Affleck were the true leads in Training Day, The Last King of Scotland and The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford were the dominant leads in those and the showier Denzel Washington, Forest Whitaker and Russell Crowe would have more fairly been considered in support, should be rejoicing over the placement of Stanfield and Kaluuya in their respective categories.
Guess you meant Brad Pitt... I am curious about the lapse.
Fixed. I was probably thinking of Russell Crowe and Christian Bale in 3:10 to Yuma. I remember thinking that both films came out at about the same time.
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Re: Judas and the Black Messiah

Post by HarryGoldfarb »

Big Magilla wrote: Anyone who thinks that Ethan Hawke, James McAvoy and Casey Affleck were the true leads in Training Day, The Last King of Scotland and The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford were the dominant leads in those and the showier Denzel Washington, Forest Whitaker and Russell Crowe would have more fairly been considered in support, should be rejoicing over the placement of Stanfield and Kaluuya in their respective categories.
Guess you meant Brad Pitt... I am curious about the lapse.
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Judas and the Black Messiah

Post by Big Magilla »

Technically, Judas and the Black Messiah is a 2021 release, but it is Oscar eligible for the current Oscars which are being called the 2021 Oscars by AMPAS, the Academy having succumbed to the IMDb. standard of considering awards years as the year in which the films they are are being honored as opposed to the year in which they were released. That's revisionist history, and worth a discussion of its own, but here we follow the traditional categorizing films according to the year for which they are being honored - in this case, 2020 and its (hopefully) one-time extension.

To recap, the film was planned as a calendar 2020 release in Los Angeles but postponed due to the pandemic and the AMPAS extension to include films release through late February 2021 as qualifying in this year's race.

The film has raised a minor skirmish among journalistic purists that Daniel Kaluuya's placement in the Supporting Actor category for his portrayal of Fred Hampton (the Black Messiah of the title) is category fraud and that LaKeith Stanfield as Bill O'Neal (the Judas of the title) should be the one in consideration for Supporting Actor because the film is about Hampton. That's a half-truth.

An argument that Kaluuya and Stanfield are co-leads and both should be considered for Best Actor would make sense, but if you're going to consider one for lead and the other for support, it makes sense that Stanfield be considered lead and Kaluuya support. The film tells the story from O'Neal's perspective, Hampton's character being off-screen for much a film.

This is the opposite of the situation in which category fraud complainers usually find themselves. Anyone who thinks that Ethan Hawke, James McAvoy and Casey Affleck were the true leads in Training Day, The Last King of Scotland and The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford were the dominant leads in those and the showier Denzel Washington, Forest Whitaker and Brad Pitt would have more fairly been considered in support, should be rejoicing over the placement of Stanfield and Kaluuya in their respective categories.

There is another problem here, though, and it is that the lead actor category is already heavy with strong contenders while the supporting actor isn't, so whichever actor is deemed supporting has the better chance of securing a nomination.

The film itself is one of year's best. It's not as entertaining as One Night in Miami, but it's better than The Trial of the Chicago 7, Ma Rainey's Black Bottom and Da 5 Bloods. It's just as good as Spike Lee's last film, BlackKklansman with which it has a lot in common, and Get Out in which Kaluuya and Stanfield previously appeared to great acclaim.
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