Parasite SPOILER discussion thread - don't read if you don't want the film ruined for you

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Re: Parasite SPOILER discussion thread - don't read if you don't want the film ruined for you

Post by flipp525 »

Mister Tee wrote:This reminds me of a speech from Lanford Wilson's Burn This, where a character says movies aren't actually intended to turn out well, and if they accidentally do, they're remade poorly like they were supposed to have been in the first place.
I played the character who said that in a college production of Burn This!
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Re: Parasite SPOILER discussion thread - don't read if you don't want the film ruined for you

Post by Mister Tee »

This reminds me of a speech from Lanford Wilson's Burn This, where a character says movies aren't actually intended to turn out well, and if they accidentally do, they're remade poorly like they were supposed to have been in the first place.
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Re: Parasite SPOILER discussion thread - don't read if you don't want the film ruined for you

Post by Okri »

While there are movies that I think would benefit from the long-form television treatment, Parasite isn't one of them.
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Re: Parasite SPOILER discussion thread - don't read if you don't want the film ruined for you

Post by Reza »

HarryGoldfarb wrote:A ‘Parasite’ Limited Series is Coming to HBO For Some Reason, But Will It Be a Sequel or a Remake?

https://www.slashfilm.com/parasite-limited-series/
There are also plans for a big screen Hollywood remake.
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Re: Parasite SPOILER discussion thread - don't read if you don't want the film ruined for you

Post by HarryGoldfarb »

A ‘Parasite’ Limited Series is Coming to HBO For Some Reason, But Will It Be a Sequel or a Remake?

https://www.slashfilm.com/parasite-limited-series/
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Re: Parasite SPOILER discussion thread - don't read if you don't want the film ruined for you

Post by Mister Tee »

I think, as Harry notes, the issue with Mr. Park smelling his fingers is not so much that the moment exists as that it feels double-underlined, which is out of tune with other foreshadowed/planted moments in the film -- we learn that Mr. Kim's son was also a boy scout from a throwaway line, yet it turns out to be vital for the film's final moments; the fired housekeeper tosses off "I disabled the closed circuit cam" as minor detail, but it becomes the reason why Mr. Kim was able to elude the police. Or go to another Bong film, Mother: when we finally see what made the son do what he did, our reaction is, of course: it was there in front of us all the time -- except we didn't realize it. That's the beauty of subtle construction: to have information given to us fairly, so we grasp why later developments come, but not planted so obviously that we're aware of it as screenwriter's gimmick. I could buy Mr. Park being so crass as to discuss the smell issue with his wife -- especially since it comes in the same conversation where it's revealed the wife has saved the Kim daughter's panties, for the cross-class sexual thrill it gives her; the fact that the Kims overhear and experience it as humiliation works to emphasize the differences that class brings regardless of personal affection. But having Mr. Park make the finger-smell as such a heavy-handed gesture, in a moment when there are far more important things going on, makes it a rare tin-ear moment from Bong. And, I'd argue, it obscures what is the real outrage of that moment: Mr. Park's son is in crisis not because of anything done to him, but because he's been so pampered that he can't deal with what's happening to others; whereas Mr. Kim's daughter is in mortal danger from a knife in her chest -- yet Park shows not the slightest interest in helping her, and is giving all his attention to getting his son out of there. That seems the much stronger reason for Mr. Kim to take his uncharacteristic action.

All that said about the specific scene, let me speak about the film in general. I think I have to be the one who counts himself slightly disappointed -- in spite of liking many things about the movie, I didn't feel it quite measured up to the "one of the best films of the decade" reactions I've been hearing in many quarters.

My reaction to the opening scene or two was, hey, a sequel to Shoplifters? But the film quickly got rolling in another direction. I enjoyed the clever set-up of the first half hour or so -- it felt like a socially-conscious variation on The Sting. I particularly got a kick out of the Kim daughter's brazen ad-libbing on child psychology. But I have to say the film went off-kilter for me when the fired maid returned and took charge. On the one hand, it was certainly a surprise -- I'd expected the Park family to return early, but had no expectation another element would be introduced -- but, at least while I was watching, it felt like just TOO much: there's this vast hidden basement, the housekeeper knew about it, her husband lives there...it was just more than my brain could process (even though the thematic elements were interesting -- the analogy of this basement to the Kims' apartment; the notion that the Kims had underestimated how powerful a parasite the housekeeper had been). And, though the sequence didn't last very long, I didn't at all care for the stretch where the housekeeper was acting as captor, making the Kims stand in ridiculous position, etc.

The movie then revived for me as the Parks returned, with some of the best sequences in the film: the Parks' hilarious obliviousness to the trash barely out of their line of vision; the trapped-under-the-table scene, with all the awkward truths overheard; and, as Harry rightly points out, the gripping descent-into-hell rain-filled journey back to the apartment. This was the strongest portion of the entire work, for me, and it flowed nicely into the hastily-arranged party.

But then, the film kind of lost me again when the housekeeper's husband went on his rampage. First of all, it seemed to rise from horror-film cliche -- "the corpse isn't really dead, it's going to jump up and attack you." It was also a bit more grisly than I thought it needed to be (this may be the parochial view of a guy who just doesn't like horror films). It featured one attack that appeared beyond fatal but apparently wasn't (unless you want to argue that Kim's son was actually dead from then on, that the entire closing sequence is imaginary -- I'd be willing to entertain that). And then it featured the smell-your-fingers gesture that has caused such controversy here.

Let me say that I really liked the epilogue -- I thought it had grace and social awareness and was, in plot terms, both surprising and somehow inevitable (and this is true whether it's reality or the musings of a dead son). It sent me out of the theatre on a happy note. But we're still talking about a film that pulled me out of my reverie not once but twice (both times involving the man in the hidden basement), and it's impossible for me to call a film with such glitches great. I take no pleasure in this, as I'd always prefer films bring me to full-on rapture. But, for me, Mother and Memories of Murder are better overall films.

This, of course, doesn't mean I don't recommend the film. It's got much going for it. I only wish it was a bit more.
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Re: Parasite SPOILER discussion thread - don't read if you don't want the film ruined for you

Post by Precious Doll »

Interestingly that moment of Mr. Park smelling his fingers is in slow motion so Bong certainly hammers that whole thing home to audiences. It thoughts that Bong's use of slow motion was pretty effective - most filmmakers don't use it well and nobody can match Brian de Palma's sublime use over the years (the entire segment in Carrie (1976) from the announcement of the king & queen of the prom to right before the blood is dropped is arguably the greatest use of slow motion in the history of cinema).

Harry your description of the descent of the Kim's family down to the slum area where they live is so apt - like entering the bowls of hell, only its full of water rather than fire. The scene also conjures up imagines for me of drenched rats trying to escape the downpour of rain, trying to seek shelter and refuge.
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Re: Parasite SPOILER discussion thread - don't read if you don't want the film ruined for you

Post by HarryGoldfarb »

I just saw Parasite, and you can count me among those who are more than satisfied with the experience. Definitely, not only one of the best movies I've seen this year but one of the best in recent years. However, I must also say that I have a problem with the last act, and not necessarily because of the violence unleashed, but because of the lack of subtlety in some details. The issue of the smell of poverty is more than underlined throughout the film, so underline it even more at the moment in which Mr. Park approaches to find the keys, with an almost childish gesture, is almost ridiculous, unnecesary and out of context: his child is in shock, probably in a convulsing state and at risk of death, Mr. Park does not even care about the deaths around him but his son´s fate, so is he really going to start making that gesture of gross disgust, so obvious, just because of the smell? It is a questionnable gesture that the director led to its most ridiculous and out of line level just for trying to make Mr. Kim's reaction make sense... a more subtle gesture could have had the same effect and would have looked more realistic, more in tune with the rest of the movie and specifically with the scene. The exploration of the class differences, of the gap between social classes is carried out with mastery and effectiveness in most cases: the scene of the escape from the Park house during the camping night of Da-Song with the progressive descent towards the slum, in clear poetic allusion to the descent from heaven to hell is wonderful and devastating, incredibly powerful and one of my favorite movie moments of the last years (it is a sequence that will be difficult for me to forget). Nor is there subtlety in that sequence but it is deeply human and painful. I think my problem with the film is that ideas are established not only with crudeness but with some fear that the public does not understand it. Maybe that's why the movie ends up being effective, because it makes the final message not dilute itself, but once again, Mr. Park's gesture, covering his nose in the middle of that chaos, a definitely implausible gesture, hurts my perception of the film a little bit although such a small detail prevents me to admire the film as a whole. It is an almost perfect film. Mr. Kim's act, questionable as it obviously is, does not seem out of context. Out of context, at least for me, is Mr. Park's final cartoonish gesture.
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Re: Parasite SPOILER discussion thread - don't read if you don't want the film ruined for you

Post by Precious Doll »

Sabin wrote:I understand intellectually why he did it but it never felt like a major enough plot point to buy that he would. He never expresses any animosity towards him beforehand for example.
I agree to a point but Mr. Park was really laying things on thick about Mr. Kim's reluctance to participate in the 'Indian attack'. It do feel it was a cumuliation of events that pushed Mr. Kim over the edge and probably the final one being Mr. Park's recoil of the 'smell'. Also, the birthday party had descended into mayhem and chaos and that would further have pushed Mr. Kim into something he normally would never even think of doing because at heart he is a decent human being.
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Re: Parasite SPOILER discussion thread - don't read if you don't want the film ruined for you

Post by Sabin »

I understand intellectually why he did it but it never felt like a major enough plot point to buy that he would. He never expresses any animosity towards him beforehand for example.
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Re: Parasite SPOILER discussion thread - don't read if you don't want the film ruined for you

Post by Precious Doll »

I felt Mr. Kim murdering Mr. Park was a combination of several factors and one in particular that played out during the film, though it was not the main reason it only added to Mr. Kim's actions.

Firstly, there was the issue of the 'smell' of Mr. Park. The first time this is mentioned the Kim family's reaction is to have Mrs. Kim wash their clothes separately with different cleaning materials, which she won't have a bar of. However, Kim's daughter states that it is not what they are cleaning their clothes with its the smell of where they live. They are poor and they literally stink because of that.

Later when Mr. Kim and his son and daughter are hiding under the furniture that Mr. & Mrs. Park are watching their son from one of the things they discuss is the 'smell' and how they can smell 'it' at that moment. They are both, particularly Mr. Park very disparaging about it. Mr. Kim is clearly humiliated by the conversation that the Park's are having in relation to the 'smell'.

They next day when Mr. Kim is taking Mrs. Park home from shopping for her son's birthday party she notices the 'smell' and opens the side widow of the car where she is sitting which is noticed by Mr. Kim.

But now the stuff that really counts:

Its very obvious to Mr. Park that Mr. Kim does not really want to participate in the 'Indian attack' for Mr. Park's son's entertainment - its written all over his face. Mr. Park chastises Mr. Kim quite severely who simply goes along with it, though again he feels humiliated at the manner in which he has been spoken to and treated. Up until this point Mr. Park has never spoken in this manner to Mr. Kim but Mr. Kim is aware of the Park's displeasure of the 'smell' and in a sense we, along with Mr. Kim are seeing a rather unpleasant side of Mr. Park for the first time.

However, when the mayhem breaks out at the party with the appearance and actions of the crazed husband of the former maid, who stabs Mr. Kim's daughter in the upper chest, Mr. Kim instinctively goes to to the aid of his daughter.

This is where I'm a little hazy on exactly what happened next (I've seen the film twice but its been over 3 months ago and its so crammed with detail). I think Mr. Park was trying to retrieve keys or something from the crazed former maid's husband who has been subdued but after touching the man and than placing his fingers near his nose, he smells what I assume is the same odour that he smells on around Mr. Kim. Mr. Park recoils in disgust.

Mr. Kim notices Mr. Parks disgust, grabs a knife and then stabs Mr Park. I feel at this point Mr. Kim snapped so to speak. His badly injured, maybe dying daughter lying there in pain, combined with condescending Mr. Parks barking orders at Mr. Kim causes Mr. Kim to loose his shit big time. I also feel it was the ultimate act against the bourgerious and in a sense enough is enough for Mr. Kim.
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Re: Parasite SPOILER discussion thread - don't read if you don't want the film ruined for you

Post by Sabin »

When I spoke of Mr. Kim's choice, I wasn't referring to his decision to live below the house. I was referring to his decision to murder the patriarch/head of the household (whose name escapes me two days later). And when I spoke about the ending lacking a bit of the inspiration from the rest of the film, I didn't mean the epilogue. I meant the burst of violence at the "Trauma Recovery Party."

As I write the phrase "Trauma Recovery Party," it occurs to me that one of my initial observations about this film was that it contained fewer absurdities than in Bong's previous films. I remember this observation as I write the phrase "Trauma Recovery Party."
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Parasite SPOILER discussion thread - don't read if you don't want the film ruined for you

Post by Precious Doll »

I thought I would start up a spoiler thread for Parasite because it is going to create a lot of discussion and don't think its fair that the film is spoiled for people who haven't seen it simply because the less you know before seeing it the better.

In response to Sabin's review:

"The ending lacks a bit of the inspiration of the rest of the film. This is a movie that feels primed to explode and instead it just brutalizes. I never bought "Mr. Kim"'s... choice. The movie makes it a point to set up that he is capable of making that choice and to set up the smell of poverty as a recurring device, but it never seems like a raw nerve for the character. I didn't entirely buy his action. To buy it, I would have had to understand it more before or after the fact. There's something slightly off or missing in Parasite's ending. Perhaps it is saying something about the chaotic nature of class warfare but it just wasn't totally clear to me."

My take:

I never had a problem with Mr. Kim's choice to remain in the basement and it was understandable. The alternative was prison and in all likelihood a life sentence as he murdered Mr Park. After all, Mr. Kim's son and wife were lucky to get off with probation for their acts for fraud and the tragedy that they all led to. Whilst Mr. Kim's motivation that led him to murder Mr. Park makes sense within the confines of the film and he doesn't come out of it looking like a villain from the audience perspective, we remain sympathetic, the stark reality is that a life lived in the basement is probably preferable to a life in a South Korean prison which would be no picnic. My understanding is that South Korea no longer has in 'practice' the death penalty but have a number of people on 'death row' so you never know if that changes. That Mr. Kim is now captive in the basement also provides the film with a rather poignant 'what if' like ending with his now distant relationship with his son.
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