Reasons/blame for Whiteout 2?

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Re: Reasons/blame for Whiteout 2?

Post by ITALIANO »

OscarGuy wrote:Because everything isn't about you, Marco.
No, Oscar Guy - everything isn't about America, this is the point. Or about America's (often wrong) way of categorizing people. It comes from ignrance, mostly, from an absolute ignorance of geography, ethnics, anthropology, linguistics... and it can lead to big problems.
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Re: Reasons/blame for Whiteout 2?

Post by CalWilliam »

Two definitions of latin (latino):

-A member of any people speaking a language descended from Latin, as French, Spanish, Italian, or Portuguese.
-A native or inhabitant of any country in Latin America.

I'm latin, I'm ''spaniard'' as you say, I'm European and Javier Bardem is not a person of color whatsoever, from any imaginable point of view. I think it's easier than it seems.

Likewise, the term ''latino'' has another connotation that it hasn't anything to do with its actual meaning. I mean, I have read, SO many times, that Penélope Cruz won an Oscar for playing a stereotypical, fierce ''latin'' woman, using that word in terms of character and behaviour, as if all spaniards shared that kind of temperament, in contrast to the more restrained or hieratic nature of North Europeans. Again, another stereotype.
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Re: Reasons/blame for Whiteout 2?

Post by Big Magilla »

Sonic Youth wrote:
OscarGuy wrote:Because everything isn't about you, Marco. It's talking about people of Spanish-speaking origin.
That would exclude Brazil, though.
Portuguese is the official language of Brazil.
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Re: Reasons/blame for Whiteout 2?

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OscarGuy wrote:Because everything isn't about you, Marco. It's talking about people of Spanish-speaking origin.
That would exclude Brazil, though.
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Re: Reasons/blame for Whiteout 2?

Post by Sonic Youth »

ITALIANO wrote:
OscarGuy wrote:There's a difference between "Latin" in terms of language, culture and origin and "Latino," an American Spanish word used to refer to people whose identities and cultures are derived from Latin American nations, which are, almost entirely Spanish or Portuguese-speaking with the rare English-speaking or French-speaking country thrown in. To my knowledge, Italian and Romanche are not actively spoken as official or dominant languages anywhere in Latin America.
If even Spaniards are considered Latinos (though they are Europeans), why not me?
I don't think they are, though. In America, "Latino" is shorthand for "Latin American". IOW, South or Central America. I don't think the word as defined in America includes Spain or Portugal. I could be very wrong, though.

Look up the history of the word "Latino". It's a very fluid word, depending on where you live and what era you live in. I don't think "Latinos" even use it to define themselves, unless they're filling out forms.
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Re: Reasons/blame for Whiteout 2?

Post by mlrg »

OscarGuy wrote: Again, the issue is DIVERSITY, not Skin Color. Any attempts to paint it as anything but is an attempt to ignore the issue altogether.
It sure looks like a question of skin color
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Re: Reasons/blame for Whiteout 2?

Post by OscarGuy »

Because everything isn't about you, Marco. It's talking about people of Spanish-speaking origin. The category is Hispanic & Latino, not just Latino. You also aren't an American citizen, so it doesn't matter as no one who is actually European would even be classified as such.

Again, the issue is DIVERSITY, not Skin Color. Any attempts to paint it as anything but is an attempt to ignore the issue altogether.
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Re: Reasons/blame for Whiteout 2?

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'Fresh Prince' Star Janet Hubert Slams Jada Pinkett Smith for Boycotting Oscars (ET Online)

Janet Hubert didn’t hold back speaking out against Jada Pinkett Smith boycotting the Academy Awards this year.

Hubert – who played (Will Smith's) Aunt Vivian on the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air – posted a video response to Will Smith’s wife, who announced that she will not be attending the Oscars due to the lack of diversity among the nominees. “First of all, Miss Thing, does your man not have a mouth of his own with which to speak?” Hubert declared. “The second thing, girlfriend, there’s a lot of sh** going on in the world that you all don’t seem to recognize. People are dying. Our boys are being shot left and right. People are starving. People are trying to pay bills. And you’re talking about some motherf**king actors and Oscars. It just ain’t that deep.”

Hubert also did not agree with Jada asking other people in Hollywood to boycott the awards show. “And here’s the other thing, for you to ask other actors, and other black actresses and actors, too, to jeopardize their career and their standing in a town that you know damn well you don’t do that,” she said. “And here’s the other thing – they don’t care. They don’t care! And I find it ironic that somebody who has made their living, and made millions and millions of dollars from the very people you’re talking about boycotting just because you didn’t get a nomination, just because you didn’t win. That is not the way life works, baby.”
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Re: Reasons/blame for Whiteout 2?

Post by ITALIANO »

OscarGuy wrote:There's a difference between "Latin" in terms of language, culture and origin and "Latino," an American Spanish word used to refer to people whose identities and cultures are derived from Latin American nations, which are, almost entirely Spanish or Portuguese-speaking with the rare English-speaking or French-speaking country thrown in. To my knowledge, Italian and Romanche are not actively spoken as official or dominant languages anywhere in Latin America.
If even Spaniards are considered Latinos (though they are Europeans), why not me?
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Re: Reasons/blame for Whiteout 2?

Post by OscarGuy »

There's a difference between "Latin" in terms of language, culture and origin and "Latino," an American Spanish word used to refer to people whose identities and cultures are derived from Latin American nations, which are, almost entirely Spanish or Portuguese-speaking with the rare English-speaking or French-speaking country thrown in. To my knowledge, Italian and Romanche are not actively spoken as official or dominant languages anywhere in Latin America.
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Re: Reasons/blame for Whiteout 2?

Post by Eric »

The Original BJ wrote:More and more, these responses -- Cheryl Boone Isaacs's included -- are starting to seem disrespectful to the actual nominees.
Given what's on the table, I fail to see the problem there. (And Jada Pinkett Smith's performance in Magic Mike XXL is not only better than her husband's Oscar-bait fare this year, but at least 3 of the best supporting actress nominees.)
Last edited by Eric on Tue Jan 19, 2016 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Reasons/blame for Whiteout 2?

Post by Big Magilla »

Heksagon wrote:
ITALIANO wrote:Ah, so if I had Spanish ancestry I WOULD be "colored" according to you... and you are European! :D
No, of course not according to me, but according to Americans as you wrote (or more correctly, "minority", as Magilla says, not "colored").
Except that the term "person of color" is broadly used to mean anyone who isn't white.
Big Magilla wrote:For the record, "Spaniards", are not considered a minority in the U.S. "Latinos" or more precisely those of Mexican, Central and South American descent are.
According to Wikipedia, U.S. Census counts Spaniards as Latinos.[/quote]

From the Census Bureau's own website to throw more confusion into the mix:

"Hispanics may be of any race, so also are included in applicable race categories."
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Re: Reasons/blame for Whiteout 2?

Post by ITALIANO »

Heksagon wrote:
Big Magilla wrote:For the record, "Spaniards", are not considered a minority in the U.S. "Latinos" or more precisely those of Mexican, Central and South American descent are.
According to Wikipedia, U.S. Census counts Spaniards as Latinos.
I'm afraid that's how most Americans feel. And if Spaniards are Latinos, so are Italians, Portuguese, French and Romanians: Europeans who speak a language of Latin origins. Latin isn't an ethnicity - it's a language and it only refers to the languages which derived from it; but America's tendency to see enemies everywhere (except inside irself) leads to consider even South-Europeans as an etnic minority! (On another site, where this subject is discussed in a much more idiotic and emotional, way than here, Javier Bardem is mentoned by some as a case of the Academy recognizing a person of a "different color"!).

And by the way - even many South Americans are 100% Caucasian.
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Re: Reasons/blame for Whiteout 2?

Post by The Original BJ »

More and more, these responses -- Cheryl Boone Isaacs's included -- are starting to seem disrespectful to the actual nominees. I know, I know -- white actors in the entertainment industry have enough privilege they can deal with some people being upset in broad terms. (Though, frankly, Jada Pinkett Smith is also privileged enough that she can deal with her husband not getting an Oscar nomination this time.) But the thing with the Oscars is that if you're going to argue that a whole bunch of people were denied deserved nominations, that means you're ALSO arguing that a whole bunch of people who DID get nominated should not have been. Of course, that's a big part of what we do around here, but I'd say there's a pretty big difference between anonymous movie fans griping on a message board and the President of the Academy basically saying that her nominators screwed up because a bunch of the white actors recognized were not only unworthy, but that they stole spots that should have gone to superior black candidates because of prejudice. It just feels like, more and more, people are advocating for a quota system, where a movie like Straight Outta Compton is entitled to an automatic Best Picture spot to better reflect, in David Oyelowo's terms, a nation where Ride Along 2 is the top-grossing movie of the weekend, regardless of merit.

And for the record, if we're talking about undeserved nominations, I would happily remove both the nomination for Creed and the nomination for Straight Outta Compton. Although what "side" of this debate would that put me on? The side that didn't want nominations for black-themed movies? Or the side that would happily remove the nominations for the white people associated with them? It's getting ridiculous, no? And as Mister Tee says, it is undercutting a real problem, because if there are SO many parts for actors of color they could be filling entire nomination rosters with them, I guess nobody in Hollywood should focus on increasing diversity in movies, cause the problem is just the racist ol' Academy.
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Re: Reasons/blame for Whiteout 2?

Post by Heksagon »

ITALIANO wrote:Ah, so if I had Spanish ancestry I WOULD be "colored" according to you... and you are European! :D
No, of course not according to me, but according to Americans as you wrote (or more correctly, "minority", as Magilla says, not "colored").
Big Magilla wrote:For the record, "Spaniards", are not considered a minority in the U.S. "Latinos" or more precisely those of Mexican, Central and South American descent are.
According to Wikipedia, U.S. Census counts Spaniards as Latinos.
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